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View Poll Results: Is the context of the usage of the term Hispanic appropriate as a designation?
Yes; it's appropriate in the regard that it recognizes that Latin American's are legitimately ''minorities.'' 14 21.21%
No; It's an inappropriate designation that was created as a crafty political device. 45 68.18%
I am not acquainted enough with this subject to judge. 7 10.61%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-13-2008, 09:49 AM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,658,723 times
Reputation: 690

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Selma Hayek

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Mother of Louisiana Creole(French/African/Native American) Ancestry/Father is Arab-she was born in Mexico but educated in New Orleans Creole society.

Famous Creoles of today(click sil'te plai): Selma Hayek

Last edited by picmod; 01-10-2014 at 03:37 AM..
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Old 02-14-2008, 02:21 AM
 
126 posts, read 245,133 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
VERY inflammatory, but I'll agree with this. There is NO area of modern American society that is "closed" to anyone because of ethnicity. Increasingly, the problems of minorities (and they ARE problems) have more and more to do with self-inflicted bad behavior, bad choices, and lack of discipline, and less and less to do with outside prejudice.
History tells us that Empire's are not to exist forever, our country's wealth
was built on slave work from Africa, which lasted until the 1960's with the end of apartheid in the U.S., since then we have depended more and more on
labor from our neighbors down south and so far they have done an exceptional
work, but as they too progress in the economic ladder we need to keep
importing them, U.S. largest economy is still agriculture, if you take effective
labor from the equation, agriculture will also collapse, and will follow the fate of so many other sectors of the economy where the jobs have gone abroad, soon we may even get education over the internet by folks in India or China,
I always tell my fellow Americans; be careful on what you wish for!!!!
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:09 AM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,061,455 times
Reputation: 2049
Quote:
Originally Posted by osomd1 View Post
History tells us that Empire's are not to exist forever, our country's wealth
was built on slave work from Africa, which lasted until the 1960's with the end of apartheid in the U.S., since then we have depended more and more on
labor from our neighbors down south and so far they have done an exceptional
work, but as they too progress in the economic ladder we need to keep
importing them, U.S. largest economy is still agriculture, if you take effective
labor from the equation, agriculture will also collapse, and will follow the fate of so many other sectors of the economy where the jobs have gone abroad, soon we may even get education over the internet by folks in India or China,
I always tell my fellow Americans; be careful on what you wish for!!!!
Okay, now this is getting silly. Who do you work for? La Raza? Bush?
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Old 02-14-2008, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by osomd1 View Post
History tells us that Empire's are not to exist forever, our country's wealth
was built on slave work from Africa, which lasted until the 1960's with the end of apartheid in the U.S., since then we have depended more and more on
labor from our neighbors down south and so far they have done an exceptional
work, but as they too progress in the economic ladder we need to keep
importing them, U.S. largest economy is still agriculture, if you take effective
labor from the equation, agriculture will also collapse, and will follow the fate of so many other sectors of the economy where the jobs have gone abroad, soon we may even get education over the internet by folks in India or China,
I always tell my fellow Americans; be careful on what you wish for!!!!
We will take our chances. thank you

Besides; as the worldwide birthrate plummets down to or below replacement level, where in the hell are we going to get more 'serf/slave' labor?

Mexico alone is putting out under 2.4 children per woman------down from a high of 7.3 avg in 1962. Replacement level is 2.1 kids.
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,042,585 times
Reputation: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by osomd1 View Post
History tells us that Empire's are not to exist forever, our country's wealth
was built on slave work from Africa, which lasted until the 1960's with the end of apartheid in the U.S., since then we have depended more and more on
labor from our neighbors down south and so far they have done an exceptional
work, but as they too progress in the economic ladder we need to keep
importing them, U.S. largest economy is still agriculture, if you take effective
labor from the equation, agriculture will also collapse, and will follow the fate of so many other sectors of the economy where the jobs have gone abroad, soon we may even get education over the internet by folks in India or China,
I always tell my fellow Americans; be careful on what you wish for!!!!
That's the 3rd time I've seen this post. Perhaps it's time to come up with something new?
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Old 02-14-2008, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Northeast U.S.
165 posts, read 409,932 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
That lady looks like awfully 'Italian' to me
I think she looks pretty Dutch-Chinese.

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Old 02-14-2008, 10:45 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc0127 View Post
I'm right there with you on that. I'm not saying the options they had were good, but the effects of European imperialism were similar at an overview by all measures. In Mexico, it was pretty much the Aztecs or the Spaniards. I don't blame them for choosing the Spaniards, but if they were to foreshadow what would happen in the future, maybe other groups (especially groups that weren't near the Aztecs) would have wanted differently (as they probably did).

White guilt isn't the healthiest way to go about it though. It's saying that one is to be responsible for their ancestor's actions. The could be somewhat true at a societal level, but not to the responsibility of an individual who was never involved. White guilt is a very accelerated form of societal measure that both us and our media have forced upon ourselves. It's good for us to liberate, but not to let it go to far either. As American citizens, our motivation and goal should be to make sure that all citizens are on the same page, especially before letting it or grooming now ones. We got too many problems that are going unattended too because of the selfish and careless interests of our government.
I don't think in Mexico the Indians are like the Mexican nationalists here are at all. I don't think the Indians of Mexico even think that history can be undone and all the Spaniards go back to Spain and mestisos just go poof and Mexico becomes a 100% Indian nation. That is something though up by the radical types in OUR universities.

As far as white guilt -- maybe it's not exactly guilt but Americans allowing themselves to be blamed for everything that goes wrong. Mexicans of Aztec descent certainly don't feel any remorse over their ancestors enslaving and cannibalizing other Indians of Mexico. They plain don't care.

If one group of Indians took over the area of another group of Indians a long time ago -- their descendents aren't feeling any sorrow for their ancestors doing that. Just like the politicians apologizing for this and for that -- and for events that took place long before they were born -- it's pretty absurd when you think about it -- but that doesn't stop them.
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Old 02-14-2008, 10:52 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Won't get into a long dissection of your post, NYC 0127, but we did have a long discussion on culture some months ago. And it was, (and is) my contention that the US 'default' culture (a derivative of a small group of English Protestants) is fairly unique among world cultures, in that it contains the rare capacity for "societal guilt". It's one of our redeeming features, and has been a big reason why most of the abuses committed by America, have also been CORRECTED by America. In short, we as a nation, have a 'conscience'..and our society is largely 'self-correcting'. Sounds simplistic, but I maintain that's a real rarity out there in the world. MOST nations and ethnicities have committed horrible mayhem upon others, but VERY few discuss their "guilt', or admit any accountability. I'm sure you could come up with a dozen examples of this in a minute. It's simply a fact of life, we know it's how we "think", and that others don't, and we seldom even question it.

One "side effect" of our guilty conscience, though, is that it's easy and very 'satisfying' to criticize 'white America'...(as its sometimes erroneously called). Anyone can (and often DOES) criticize America for her past 'sins', real or imagined..and WE WILL LISTEN. We'll feel 'bad', we'll agree with our accusers, etc. So anyone accusing America of racism, oppression, or mistreament, is going to get a lot of 'bang for his buck'. Few people criticize China, or Russia, or Mexico, or Pakistan....because these countries will IGNORE you, and therefore criticizing them is pointless...they don't CARE if you like them or not.

That's why, as you note in your post, many people accuse "Americans" (particularly 'white Christian' Americans) of all sorts of past atrocities and racism, while failing to mention their OWN group's transgressions....America has a capacity for GUILT, while most societies do not. Criticizing THESE societies would be pointless..(in fact, many groups blame us not only for the bad things WE did, but for "making" THEM do the bad things THEY did....you name the atrocity, America either DID it, or was so 'mean, ornery, and racist' that we caused someone ELSE to do it)...
When you look at European colonialism -- the best thing for a country is to have been a former British colony. For some reason the British left their colonies in a pretty good position for self-rule and so one. Almost as though the British didn't plan to stay in charge for ever. So -- we have the USA, Canada, Australia -- first world countries that were former colonies. Barbados and Jamaica -- much better off than Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Cuba. And Hong Kong and parts of India were controlled by England and better off for having been.
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:00 AM
 
269 posts, read 490,318 times
Reputation: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
like the politicians apologizing for this and for that -- and for events that took place long before they were born -- it's pretty absurd when you think about it -- but that doesn't stop them.
It's a cheap and easy way to get votes from the poor oppressed people-of-color they're "apologizing" to.

Anything for power.

Isn't there a maxim for the situation macmeal is describing? "The more complaining you hear about a regime, the fairer the regime actually is" or something like that? People mostly complain only if they've got a reason to believe their complaint will be addressed or compensated for.
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Old 02-15-2008, 06:38 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I don't think in Mexico the Indians are like the Mexican nationalists here are at all. I don't think the Indians of Mexico even think that history can be undone and all the Spaniards go back to Spain and mestisos just go poof and Mexico becomes a 100% Indian nation. That is something though up by the radical types in OUR universities.

As far as white guilt -- maybe it's not exactly guilt but Americans allowing themselves to be blamed for everything that goes wrong. Mexicans of Aztec descent certainly don't feel any remorse over their ancestors enslaving and cannibalizing other Indians of Mexico. They plain don't care.

If one group of Indians took over the area of another group of Indians a long time ago -- their descendents aren't feeling any sorrow for their ancestors doing that. Just like the politicians apologizing for this and for that -- and for events that took place long before they were born -- it's pretty absurd when you think about it -- but that doesn't stop them.
Well stated.
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