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Old 01-15-2016, 11:55 AM
 
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Most of the illegals in my area work on the hog farms or at the poultry plants. Both high-paying but nasty jobs that Americans won't do. Average wage around here is about $9 an hour. The hog farms start at $13.


My daughter worked at a poultry plant for four years. She said that Americans would not stay but Hispanics did for years.


They almost killed my former occupation, installing floor covering, because they would work so cheap. Sometimes $10 a day.

Last edited by Floorist; 01-15-2016 at 12:39 PM..
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Old 01-15-2016, 12:01 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,044,409 times
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Originally Posted by AllenSJC View Post
...that "illegals" are a net drag on the U.S. economy?

Thanks in advance.
Not sure it's possible to give "empirical evidence" on something you know is all around you but cannot count. Even the Govt just guess and keeps using 11 million.
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Old 01-15-2016, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,068,763 times
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Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Not sure it's possible to give "empirical evidence" on something you know is all around you but cannot count. Even the Govt just guess and keeps using 11 million.
If you can count them, you can catch them.
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Old 01-15-2016, 04:17 PM
 
31,495 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
The use of water in CA is virtually all agricultural. If the illegals went away...and were not replaced...it would save perhaps 2.5% of the water. In fact the vast majority would be replaced as they generally perform needed functions.

California is in very good shape financially with a rainy day fund now past 12 billion and growing rapidly. Budget surplus is in the billions.

Illegals certainly impact the employment of citizens. The also lower the cost of living and improve the profitability of small businsses. On balance? Difficult if not impossible to calculate.

Do you have a link you could provide that California has a surplus in its budget? I live here and everything I have read is that we are virtually broke. Illegals don't perform any functions or jobs that Americans won't do for a fair wage. Illegals do not lower our cost of living as they increase our healthcare and insurance rates. Those who hire them do not pass any savings on to the consumer they merely pocket the profits for themselves while passing their social costs on to the taxpayer. There are plenty of viable stats out there that prove that illegals are a net fiscal burden to our country not a boon and they have been posted in here numerous times. Besides, shouldn't all that matters is that they are here in violation of our immigration laws? That's "my" bottom line. I don't need to offer arguments pro or con to this issue really. Either we are nation of laws or we aren't.
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Old 01-15-2016, 04:32 PM
 
31,495 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Most of the illegals in my area work on the hog farms or at the poultry plants. Both high-paying but nasty jobs that Americans won't do. Average wage around here is about $9 an hour. The hog farms start at $13.


My daughter worked at a poultry plant for four years. She said that Americans would not stay but Hispanics did for years.


They almost killed my former occupation, installing floor covering, because they would work so cheap. Sometimes $10 a day.
There are unlimited H-2A visas for legal farm workers. The only reason that some farmers hire illegals instead is to increase their profits and avoid paying benefits of which we taxpayers pick up the tab for via our taxes. Many Americans who live in rural areas do that work also. Hispanics? Are they legal or illegal? It does make a difference, you know. That's the problem illegals have killed all kinds of construction jobs and businesses for Americans by working for less.
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Old 01-15-2016, 05:57 PM
 
10,713 posts, read 3,748,229 times
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Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Do you have a link you could provide that California has a surplus in its budget? I live here and everything I have read is that we are virtually broke. Illegals don't perform any functions or jobs that Americans won't do for a fair wage. Illegals do not lower our cost of living as they increase our healthcare and insurance rates. Those who hire them do not pass any savings on to the consumer they merely pocket the profits for themselves while passing their social costs on to the taxpayer. There are plenty of viable stats out there that prove that illegals are a net fiscal burden to our country not a boon and they have been posted in here numerous times. Besides, shouldn't all that matters is that they are here in violation of our immigration laws? That's "my" bottom line. I don't need to offer arguments pro or con to this issue really. Either we are nation of laws or we aren't.
For CA economy...

Independent analyst forecasts rosy finances for California ** | The Press Democrat

So you like I believe the illegals would be replaced with legals at a higher cost. So the price of everything goes up. Maybe some small savings in taxes as there is less assistance but mostly these are low paid workers so school costs etc. would be the same.

I would also note the illegals tend to have a higher proportion of single men so the demand on social systems would go up as we get more families and children.

So on balance replacing illegals in CA probably mean everyones cost of living goes up.

I posted the best summaries I know of. Let us see you post a better set. But not from the biased groups like FAIR and such. Here is a hint. Anyone who uses the legal children of illegals as a cost is cheatiang and untrustworthy. Those are American citizens and have every right to their benefits.
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Old 01-15-2016, 06:04 PM
 
10,713 posts, read 3,748,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
There are unlimited H-2A visas for legal farm workers. The only reason that some farmers hire illegals instead is to increase their profits and avoid paying benefits of which we taxpayers pick up the tab for via our taxes. Many Americans who live in rural areas do that work also. Hispanics? Are they legal or illegal? It does make a difference, you know. That's the problem illegals have killed all kinds of construction jobs and businesses for Americans by working for less.
There are numerous reasons why the farmers do not like the H2A visas. Long lead times. Fixed commitments, housing standards, low flexibility.

The Hispanic workers are actually well paid. They were used by the American contractors to beat the unions and now dominate certain fields. But they always been pretty well paid. Well over $20 an hour in most of the southwest.
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Old 01-15-2016, 06:35 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
For CA economy...

Independent analyst forecasts rosy finances for California ** | The Press Democrat

So you like I believe the illegals would be replaced with legals at a higher cost. So the price of everything goes up. Maybe some small savings in taxes as there is less assistance but mostly these are low paid workers so school costs etc. would be the same.

I would also note the illegals tend to have a higher proportion of single men so the demand on social systems would go up as we get more families and children.

So on balance replacing illegals in CA probably mean everyones cost of living goes up.

I posted the best summaries I know of. Let us see you post a better set. But not from the biased groups like FAIR and such. Here is a hint. Anyone who uses the legal children of illegals as a cost is cheatiang and untrustworthy. Those are American citizens and have every right to their benefits.
So prices go up? Calif's already crazy high dollar now.

US born kids of illegal aliens; that nonsense needs to be stopped unless at least 1 parent's a US citizen. Birthright is gone in any other decent country except Canada.
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Old 01-15-2016, 06:39 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
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Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
There are numerous reasons why the farmers do not like the H2A visas. Long lead times. Fixed commitments, housing standards, low flexibility.

The Hispanic workers are actually well paid. They were used by the American contractors to beat the unions and now dominate certain fields. But they always been pretty well paid. Well over $20 an hour in most of the southwest.
Even IF you info's 100 percent right: less than 5 out of 100 illegal aliens even do farm work so that means 95 percent of their kind can still leave with NO pain for most of us. Too; food prices have jumped a LOT in the last few years which is strange looking at MUCH lower fuel costs.
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Old 01-15-2016, 07:11 PM
 
31,495 posts, read 14,573,470 times
Reputation: 8355
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
There are numerous reasons why the farmers do not like the H2A visas. Long lead times. Fixed commitments, housing standards, low flexibility.

The Hispanic workers are actually well paid. They were used by the American contractors to beat the unions and now dominate certain fields. But they always been pretty well paid. Well over $20 an hour in most of the southwest.

Well tough! Then they need to contact their Representatives to make them easier to use but that in no way justifies them hiring illegal aliens because it is against the law. It is my understanding that pickers are paid by the bucket, etc. not by the hour. I'd like proof of your assertions. Many Americans do not live in rural areas to pick crops and it is not a career job anyway.
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