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Old 02-07-2016, 07:07 AM
 
31,645 posts, read 14,607,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I didn't say I was a conservative.

What I am saying is that if you ask most conservatives if they would be willing to spend, say, 10 billion a year to beef up the immigration courts (and the amount may well be more) they'd look at you like you have horns.

I didn't say you were a conservative as obviously you are not. You said that all the conservatives you have spoken with don't want to foot the bill to deport illegal aliens. That's simply not true. You can't possibly have spoken to every conservative in this country. We know what the costs are of allowing them to remain here vs the costs of deporting them and deporting them would be the most cost effective even Homeland Security has stated that but there is an alternative solution which I already posted about.
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:51 AM
 
62,553 posts, read 27,811,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Who do you think built houses and did landscaping jobs at a fair wage before the arrival of millions of cheap, illegal laborers?
US citizen tradesmen who used to make $25/hour and now are lucky if they're able to beat out an illegal for a $12/hour job with no benefits. I've seen it first-hand. It has devastated their families and their standard of living.
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Old 02-07-2016, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
4,533 posts, read 1,947,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
US citizen tradesmen who used to make $25/hour and now are lucky if they're able to beat out an illegal for a $12/hour job with no benefits. I've seen it first-hand. It has devastated their families and their standard of living.
If Michael Moore really cared about the American working class he'd make a documentary on this. I won't hold my breath though...
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Old 02-07-2016, 01:31 PM
 
10,804 posts, read 3,768,270 times
Reputation: 4713
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
US citizen tradesmen who used to make $25/hour and now are lucky if they're able to beat out an illegal for a $12/hour job with no benefits. I've seen it first-hand. It has devastated their families and their standard of living.
Source?

In the SW it is normal for day laborers, very likely to be illegal, to make $15 an hour. Tradesmen who are mostly Hispanic and some small percentage illegal make $20 to $25 an hour. I would also note that non Hispanic tradesman virtually all have Hispanic helpers and laborers who are likely illegal and make more than $15 an hour.
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Old 02-07-2016, 01:46 PM
 
11,529 posts, read 5,523,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Source?

In the SW it is normal for day laborers, very likely to be illegal, to make $15 an hour. Tradesmen who are mostly Hispanic and some small percentage illegal make $20 to $25 an hour. I would also note that non Hispanic tradesman virtually all have Hispanic helpers and laborers who are likely illegal and make more than $15 an hour.
Do some research on this topic. Many Americans in the construction fields have lost their livelihoods due to illegal immigration. At one time construction work paid a good wage---enough that a family could live off that single income. For example, growing up I had a friend whose father did construction work. We lived in an area that had rough winters which meant most construction stopped during that season. So, my friend's father would spend the winter months unemployed. Yet the family managed just fine because during the rest of the year he made enough money to enable him to put aside some to get through the winter. Construction workers can no longer live like that.

These days Americans who run honest business in the construction fields just can't make it anymore. They end up being undercut by sleazy business owners who use illegal alien labor and pay under the table, thus engaging in tax evasion.
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Old 02-07-2016, 04:01 PM
 
10,804 posts, read 3,768,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
Do some research on this topic. Many Americans in the construction fields have lost their livelihoods due to illegal immigration. At one time construction work paid a good wage---enough that a family could live off that single income. For example, growing up I had a friend whose father did construction work. We lived in an area that had rough winters which meant most construction stopped during that season. So, my friend's father would spend the winter months unemployed. Yet the family managed just fine because during the rest of the year he made enough money to enable him to put aside some to get through the winter. Construction workers can no longer live like that.

These days Americans who run honest business in the construction fields just can't make it anymore. They end up being undercut by sleazy business owners who use illegal alien labor and pay under the table, thus engaging in tax evasion.
Your history is flawed. In the southwest the pattern is very clear. Caucasian contractors went after the union ones. To find the required tradesman they went to the Hispanic. They did not go after illegals per se...but non-union tradesmen who in the SW turn out to be Hispanic. 30 years ago a good portion though probably not a majority were illegal. Since then the percentage illegal has shrunk though there are still a reasonable number.

At this point virtually all staffing in residential construction is Hispanic though many of the Contractors are Caucasian. The heavy construction on high rises in downtown areas remains primarily Caucasian.

And yes the residential field does pay less than the commercial...though not nearly as much less as 25 years ago. But the difference is more union versus non-union.
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Old 02-07-2016, 05:26 PM
 
10,804 posts, read 3,768,270 times
Reputation: 4713
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Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
They are the product of illegal immigration and only deemed citizens by the PC policy of making them so. So yes, this a cost incurred by illegal immigration. Nothing in our Constitution grants the offspring of illegal aliens our birthright citizenship. This has been explained in here over and over. If their parents weren't here illegally this never would have been an issue.
Sorry OG No matter how many times you click your heels the kids are still American Citizens and are accepted as so by the Federal Government and all 50 states. The costs of educating them are therefore the normal cost of bringing up an American Citizen.

I like the term though. As soon as you see the education of American Children counted as an illegal cost you know the analysis is biased and worthless.
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Old 02-07-2016, 06:02 PM
 
31,645 posts, read 14,607,060 times
Reputation: 8434
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Sorry OG No matter how many times you click your heels the kids are still American Citizens and are accepted as so by the Federal Government and all 50 states. The costs of educating them are therefore the normal cost of bringing up an American Citizen.

I like the term though. As soon as you see the education of American Children counted as an illegal cost you know the analysis is biased and worthless.
Not according to wording in the 14th Amendment they aren't no matter how many times you click your heals and want it to be so. Nope, they are a product of illegal immigration and therefore should be counted in the costs of illegal immigration. Nothing biased or worthless about the truth.
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:31 PM
 
10,804 posts, read 3,768,270 times
Reputation: 4713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Not according to wording in the 14th Amendment they aren't no matter how many times you click your heals and want it to be so. Nope, they are a product of illegal immigration and therefore should be counted in the costs of illegal immigration. Nothing biased or worthless about the truth.
The Feds and all 50 states...and you are right anyway? Click hard...you are going to need it.
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:50 PM
 
11,529 posts, read 5,523,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Your history is flawed. In the southwest the pattern is very clear.
My "history is NOT flawed". I don't live in the southwest. Try the mid-Atlantic. I've seen what happened here with my own eyes. Up until the late 90s, all construction work was done by Americans. One state that borders us is impoverished and many of those American construction workers lived there. During the warmer months, they would come here to work and live in their campers, moving from campsite to campsite every 3 weeks. Slowly, but surely, they were all replaced by illegals. I often think of those now-displaced men and wonder how they support themselves and their families these days.

It isn't just the mid-Atlantic where this has occurred. It's in many other parts of the country, too.

No matter where it's happening, no matter how long it's been happening---there is no excuse for anyone to be hiring illegal aliens. Period.
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