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Old 02-13-2016, 01:21 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,301,713 times
Reputation: 5895

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datafeed View Post
The parties can't cooperate enough to pass stuff that 80% of Americans agree on let alone will they be able to get the super majority required to pass a constitutional amendment.

Also, i think removing birthright is actually a bad thing. we dont want to end up like Germany with a bunch of no mans' land 3rd class residents who are neither Germany nor Turkish.

It's better to make then Americans and bite the bullet for the first generation then make them foreigners and create a 5th column for the next 100 years.

Most people would rather be Americans in America than anything else. Better to have them buying into the system than hating it.

It's all about fostering a common ideology and values to make a more perfect union.
NO country in Europe has birthright anymore, not even Ireland. It doesn't seem to be hurting too badly.

Turks: unless they apply for German citizenship; I'm 100 percent Germany can either deport them or just lock them up till Turkey takes its people back.
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Old 02-13-2016, 02:31 PM
 
31,666 posts, read 14,614,583 times
Reputation: 8440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datafeed View Post
The parties can't cooperate enough to pass stuff that 80% of Americans agree on let alone will they be able to get the super majority required to pass a constitutional amendment.

Also, i think removing birthright is actually a bad thing. we dont want to end up like Germany with a bunch of no mans' land 3rd class residents who are neither Germany nor Turkish.

It's better to make then Americans and bite the bullet for the first generation then make them foreigners and create a 5th column for the next 100 years.

Most people would rather be Americans in America than anything else. Better to have them buying into the system than hating it.

It's all about fostering a common ideology and values to make a more perfect union.

Many if not most countries recognize the children born on a foreign soil from their citizen parents as citizens of the parent's country or at least offer dual citizenship so you are way off base with the scenario you are painting. I don't care who wants to be an American that is irrelevant. There is something wrong with anyone who would hate us for enforcing our own laws. All the more reason to get them out of here. We are a nation of laws and being taken advantage of. Don't care about some so-called idealogy and not endorcing our laws makes us an imperfect union.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Bangkok, NYC, and LV
2,037 posts, read 2,453,227 times
Reputation: 1128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Both parties and their constiuents are guilty of wanting cheap labor but they don't represent the majority of us. Birthright citizenship will be re-interpreted eventually so we disagree there. We already have several guest worker programs. We don't need any more poor, uneducated and unskilled foreigners willing to work for less so we don't need any guest worker programs for them.
You are right. I am misinformed about the benefits of a guest worker program. I just think it's better to have people in the light than in the dark. I guess if the purpose is to protect American jobs then its best not to import foreign labor.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Bangkok, NYC, and LV
2,037 posts, read 2,453,227 times
Reputation: 1128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
NO country in Europe has birthright anymore, not even Ireland. It doesn't seem to be hurting too badly.

Turks: unless they apply for German citizenship; I'm 100 percent Germany can either deport them or just lock them up till Turkey takes its people back.
We are not Europe and I am glad we are not.


The Turkish situation in Germany is a huge problem. I prefer that we assimilate folks as opposed to not assimilating them.

Do you seek the contrary?

I guess your position is to deport all non-citizens. So if you were in Germany you would deport the Turks or let them stay as a 5th column?

Do you not see the merits of assimilating people as opposed to not assimilating them?

Having whordes of non-citizens in your mist is not conducive to a healthy united country.

You have more faith than I do about Congress passing a constitutional amendment. I guess we can just disagree on the feasibility of obtaining the super-majority to enact what you want.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:46 PM
 
31,666 posts, read 14,614,583 times
Reputation: 8440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datafeed View Post
We are not Europe and I am glad we are not.


The Turkish situation in Germany is a huge problem. I prefer that we assimilate folks as opposed to not assimilating them.

Do you seek the contrary?

I guess your position is to deport all non-citizens. So if you were in Germany you would deport the Turks or let them stay as a 5th column?

Do you not see the merits of assimilating people as opposed to not assimilating them?

Having whordes of non-citizens in your mist is not conducive to a healthy united country.

You have more faith than I do about Congress passing a constitutional amendment. I guess we can just disagree on the feasibility of obtaining the super-majority to enact what you want.

Of course we should assimilate "legal" immigrants. Illegal aliens just need to go home, period. There is no need to pass a constitutional amendment to change birthright citizenship. The Supreme Court just needs to re-visit its original intent and interpret it the way the writer's of the 14th meant.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:56 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,301,713 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Of course we should assimilate "legal" immigrants. Illegal aliens just need to go home, period. There is no need to pass a constitutional amendment to change birthright citizenship. The Supreme Court just needs to re-visit its original intent and interpret it the way the writer's of the 14th meant.
Agreed.
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Bangkok, NYC, and LV
2,037 posts, read 2,453,227 times
Reputation: 1128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Of course we should assimilate "legal" immigrants. Illegal aliens just need to go home, period. There is no need to pass a constitutional amendment to change birthright citizenship. The Supreme Court just needs to re-visit its original intent and interpret it the way the writer's of the 14th meant.
We agree on a few things.

I think that your idea has merit that if you cracked down on illegal immigration that a lot of them would heed Mitt's advice and self-deport. I never understood why people jumped on him for that statement; it makes sense.

You can also strengthen the infrastructure like e-verify to punish businesses who hire illegals. How does the current system work? As in why is it so faulty now.

Does this prevent people from working under the table? Let me share something with you, I lived in Vegas for a second an a lot of illegals are working at even the best hotels there under false identity. I am not sure exactly how they do it but I think they just borrow someone else's identity.

Where we disagree on is the feasibility of SCOTUS doing anything on birthrate citizenship. The Courts dont really like to set policy or get involved in politics...it's more of a confirming body than a trendsetting one.

I think that you need to concede that no alternative interpretation of birthright citizenship will surface.

If you concede this, will be like pulling your wisdom teeth Oldglory, then our only options are stronger enforcement of immigration controls, crack down on business that hire illegals, and denial of social services to illegals.

can you think of any downsides to the aforementioned? I think that America likes cheap and illegal labor and that it would be very hard for the chicken processing plants, retsaruants, and ag industry to function.

Someone above said that construction is mostly legals now. Is that a regional statement or a national one?
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Old 02-14-2016, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,091,698 times
Reputation: 18141
Companies that want to hire illegals don't use e-verify or go through hiring agencies that don't e-verify. That is why it isn't working.

They don't "borrow" someone's identity, they steal it: Illegal, but Not Undocumented | Center for Immigration Studies It is a crime on top of the crime they committed by entering the US without authorization.

Birthright Citizenship, just need to move on this: https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-...-bill/140/text

On jobs: Are There Really Jobs Americans Won

Undocumented Workers in Construction Industry

The High Cost of Cheap Labor | Center for Immigration Studies

https://www.numbersusa.org/pages/jobs-americans-wont-do

Who Got the Jobs in New Hampshire? | Center for Immigration Studies

Trump 2016!
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Old 02-14-2016, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,091,698 times
Reputation: 18141
Default The Cost of Amnesty

I came across this and it makes enforcement look good in more than one way: https://www.numbersusa.org/pages/amn...re-enforcement

Labor is cheap for the employer but then we subsidize the employer by having to pick up the tab for social services for their employees, housing, food, medical care, etc. The employer takes home the profits and Uncle Sam pick-pockets us.
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Old 02-14-2016, 10:50 AM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
6,572 posts, read 11,637,898 times
Reputation: 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Your history is flawed. In the southwest the pattern is very clear. Caucasian contractors went after the union ones. To find the required tradesman they went to the Hispanic. They did not go after illegals per se...but non-union tradesmen who in the SW turn out to be Hispanic. 30 years ago a good portion though probably not a majority were illegal. Since then the percentage illegal has shrunk though there are still a reasonable number.

At this point virtually all staffing in residential construction is Hispanic though many of the Contractors are Caucasian. The heavy construction on high rises in downtown areas remains primarily Caucasian.

And yes the residential field does pay less than the commercial...though not nearly as much less as 25 years ago. But the difference is more union versus non-union.
Yet unions support Democrats, and Democrats support illegal immigration and refuse to secure the border.
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