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Old 02-14-2016, 10:54 AM
 
4,839 posts, read 2,356,364 times
Reputation: 4629

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Of course we should assimilate "legal" immigrants. Illegal aliens just need to go home, period. There is no need to pass a constitutional amendment to change birthright citizenship. The Supreme Court just needs to re-visit its original intent and interpret it the way the writer's of the 14th meant.
The 14th amendment is dated from 1868 and there was no huge economic reasons for mexicans to immigrate illegally back then. Now, the times have changed. This 14th amendment really needs to be repealed or edited.
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Old 02-14-2016, 11:29 AM
 
31,580 posts, read 14,599,205 times
Reputation: 8417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datafeed View Post
We agree on a few things.

I think that your idea has merit that if you cracked down on illegal immigration that a lot of them would heed Mitt's advice and self-deport. I never understood why people jumped on him for that statement; it makes sense.

You can also strengthen the infrastructure like e-verify to punish businesses who hire illegals. How does the current system work? As in why is it so faulty now.

Does this prevent people from working under the table? Let me share something with you, I lived in Vegas for a second an a lot of illegals are working at even the best hotels there under false identity. I am not sure exactly how they do it but I think they just borrow someone else's identity.

Where we disagree on is the feasibility of SCOTUS doing anything on birthrate citizenship. The Courts dont really like to set policy or get involved in politics...it's more of a confirming body than a trendsetting one.

I think that you need to concede that no alternative interpretation of birthright citizenship will surface.

If you concede this, will be like pulling your wisdom teeth Oldglory, then our only options are stronger enforcement of immigration controls, crack down on business that hire illegals, and denial of social services to illegals.

can you think of any downsides to the aforementioned? I think that America likes cheap and illegal labor and that it would be very hard for the chicken processing plants, retsaruants, and ag industry to function.

Someone above said that construction is mostly legals now. Is that a regional statement or a national one?
I concede nothing on changing birthright citizenship. It will happen whether you like it or not. The House GOP introduced a bill last year to require at least on parent be a citizen of this country in order for their child born on our soil to be given our birthright citizenship but even that isn't necessary since there is nothing in the 14th Amendment that deems them so anyway. That is one of the ways that illegals do get benefits through their U.S. born kids.


Americans as in regular Americans know that cheap, illegal labor isn't really cheap when you factor in their social costs that are coming out of our taxes along with reduced wages and loss of jobs. It is only the greedy employers that like them as they reap profits from hiring them for less and they pass their social costs onto us regular taxpayers. I can't speak for the entire country but from what I have heard illegals are doing construction and landscaping jobs all over the country. It certainly is prevalent here in the southwest. If e-verify is mandated in every workplace with stiff fines for non-compliance very few employers will risk paying them cash under the table.
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Old 02-14-2016, 11:56 AM
 
Location: New York Area
13,432 posts, read 5,220,611 times
Reputation: 10769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datafeed View Post
can you think of any downsides to the aforementioned? I think that America likes cheap and illegal labor and that it would be very hard for the chicken processing plants, restaurants, and ag industry to function.
I wonder how baleful the impact of a $15 minimum wage would be on all this.
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Old 02-14-2016, 11:58 AM
 
Location: New York Area
13,432 posts, read 5,220,611 times
Reputation: 10769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyp25 View Post
The 14th amendment is dated from 1868 and there was no huge economic reasons for mexicans to immigrate illegally back then. Now, the times have changed. This 14th amendment really needs to be repealed or edited.
Given that the 14th Amendment is the source of the application of Amendments 1-8 to peoples' relationship to state government, and little-known source of insurance against a Federal financial default, the chances of that happening are quite slim.
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Old 02-14-2016, 05:15 PM
 
10,768 posts, read 3,763,152 times
Reputation: 4706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datafeed View Post
We agree on a few things.

I think that your idea has merit that if you cracked down on illegal immigration that a lot of them would heed Mitt's advice and self-deport. I never understood why people jumped on him for that statement; it makes sense.
Some would leave. How many is a mystery. And the ones who would not leave are the ones with deep ties and US children. They ain't going anywhere. So yeah - get a quick million maybe two. Then what? And all that presumes you could actually create the environment that would make them run...which you can't.

Quote:
You can also strengthen the infrastructure like e-verify to punish businesses who hire illegals. How does the current system work? As in why is it so faulty now.
It doesn't work very well. It is mostly voluntary and has enough holes to drive trucks through. The real problem is that it is absolutely opposed by every business organization in the US. Getting a version of EVerify with enough teeth to be workable is virtually impossible.

The really big flaw is that any enforcement requires that the employer have knowledge of the illegal status. And that one is not going away. So the Employer uses subcontractors to do the hiring. The subs are throwaways. One gets nailed a new one starts the next day.

Quote:
Does this prevent people from working under the table? Let me share something with you, I lived in Vegas for a second an a lot of illegals are working at even the best hotels there under false identity. I am not sure exactly how they do it but I think they just borrow someone else's identity.
Some of the schemes in LV are quite fancy. The casinos do enforce and will fire over a busted SS number so the number and name have to match...and they do. So you find people with two jobs and retirees still gainfully employed etc, There are lots of schemes.

Quote:
Where we disagree on is the feasibility of SCOTUS doing anything on birthrate citizenship. The Courts dont really like to set policy or get involved in politics...it's more of a confirming body than a trendsetting one.

I think that you need to concede that no alternative interpretation of birthright citizenship will surface.

If you concede this, will be like pulling your wisdom teeth Oldglory, then our only options are stronger enforcement of immigration controls, crack down on business that hire illegals, and denial of social services to illegals.
Nothing is going to happen on Birthright citizenship and OldGlory knows it but will never agree. It would devastate his arguments and force him to agree he has no fix.

Quote:
can you think of any downsides to the aforementioned? I think that America likes cheap and illegal labor and that it would be very hard for the chicken processing plants, retsaruants, and ag industry to function.

Someone above said that construction is mostly legals now. Is that a regional statement or a national one?
The downside is that it is all virtually impossible and will never happen and would not fix the problem if it did happen. Other than that fine stuff.

That legal constructions workers is true anywhere in the SW where construction is dominated by Hispanics.
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Old 02-14-2016, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Bangkok, NYC, and LV
2,037 posts, read 2,452,521 times
Reputation: 1128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I concede nothing on changing birthright citizenship. It will happen whether you like it or not. The House GOP introduced a bill last year to require at least on parent be a citizen of this country in order for their child born on our soil to be given our birthright citizenship but even that isn't necessary since there is nothing in the 14th Amendment that deems them so anyway. That is one of the ways that illegals do get benefits through their U.S. born kids.


Americans as in regular Americans know that cheap, illegal labor isn't really cheap when you factor in their social costs that are coming out of our taxes along with reduced wages and loss of jobs. It is only the greedy employers that like them as they reap profits from hiring them for less and they pass their social costs onto us regular taxpayers. I can't speak for the entire country but from what I have heard illegals are doing construction and landscaping jobs all over the country. It certainly is prevalent here in the southwest. If e-verify is mandated in every workplace with stiff fines for non-compliance very few employers will risk paying them cash under the table.
Oldglory, you are one cantankerous ol curmudgeon. I envision you with a 5 gallon cowboy hat on some rustic ranch in Arizona. You seem like a nice man though, a patriot.

I agree with you that cheap illegal labor isnt cheap. Nothing is free. It's just who gets stuck with the bill. The cost of illegals is definitely passed on to the rest of us. if they get sick, we are footing the emergency room bill....

However, the GOP chamber of commerce class is perfectly content to reap the profits and pass along the costs to the rest of us.

I will give you this. But will you concede that the same hidden costs appear if you deport one or more of the parents of minor American citizens? I am not making a judgement on if this should be done. Only stating that we should be aware of the secondary and total costs of our policy actions.

I hear different things about he illegals doing construction: someone said its most legals with a few illegals mixed in while you say it's mostly illegals. Maybe it's regional or job dependent.
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Bangkok, NYC, and LV
2,037 posts, read 2,452,521 times
Reputation: 1128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I wonder how baleful the impact of a $15 minimum wage would be on all this.
It might curtail it or it might just cause more employers to skirt the law.

I could be wrong, but I think that a very large number of restaurants hire illegals. Didn't that NY GOP Congressman who used to work for the FBI get clipped for hiring illegals?
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:17 PM
 
Location: New York Area
13,432 posts, read 5,220,611 times
Reputation: 10769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datafeed View Post
It might curtail it or it might just cause more employers to skirt the law.
I think more will skirt the law.[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Datafeed View Post
I could be wrong, but I think that a very large number of restaurants hire illegals. Didn't that NY GOP Congressman who used to work for the FBI get clipped for hiring illegals?
I don't remember that but you could be right. I pay very little attention the New York's revolting politics. Left-wing and oozing with sleaze.
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Old 02-14-2016, 08:22 PM
 
31,580 posts, read 14,599,205 times
Reputation: 8417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datafeed View Post
Oldglory, you are one cantankerous ol curmudgeon. I envision you with a 5 gallon cowboy hat on some rustic ranch in Arizona. You seem like a nice man though, a patriot.

I agree with you that cheap illegal labor isnt cheap. Nothing is free. It's just who gets stuck with the bill. The cost of illegals is definitely passed on to the rest of us. if they get sick, we are footing the emergency room bill....

However, the GOP chamber of commerce class is perfectly content to reap the profits and pass along the costs to the rest of us.

I will give you this. But will you concede that the same hidden costs appear if you deport one or more of the parents of minor American citizens? I am not making a judgement on if this should be done. Only stating that we should be aware of the secondary and total costs of our policy actions.

I hear different things about he illegals doing construction: someone said its most legals with a few illegals mixed in while you say it's mostly illegals. Maybe it's regional or job dependent.

I don't see anything cantankerous about my patriotic views. You couldn't be more wrong about me either. I have always been a suburbanite. I was a white collared worker before I retired. I am far from being a cowboy. What makes you think that all chambers of commerce are run by Republicans? Democrats are just as guilty of wanting cheap, illegal labor.


Deported parents should take their U.S. born kids with them. Any decent parents would. These so-called citizen children can return here when they become adults if they so choose. Every construction job is different. Could be mostly illegals, mostly legals or a mix of both. All I am saying is that illegals have flooded the construction and landscaping industries and that's just a fact.
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Old 02-15-2016, 03:59 AM
 
10,830 posts, read 3,811,193 times
Reputation: 4696
Profile them, round them up, arrest them, deport them. Put the ones you can't deport into camps. Make them dig their own wells, grow their own crops, build their own shelter.

Electrified barbed wire fencing along the border. E-Verify. Illegal immigration and hiring/harboring an illegal a felony with a mandatory minimum of 5 years of imprisonment.

Visa entry-exit tracking.

Send the military down to the border.

Increase the border patrol ten-fold.

Eliminate legal defenses to deportation.

Declare a national security emergency if necessary to do the above.
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