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Old 02-15-2016, 11:03 PM
 
Location: South Portland, ME
874 posts, read 968,176 times
Reputation: 868

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datafeed View Post
huh?

My point was that I dont want the USA to become like Germany with a 5th column that's neither hear nor there....No Jihad John's in the USA. The people that fall between both worlds are the most dangerous.


I dont want to have people born here that are not Americans.


Am I missing something?
You are missing the fact that your first sentence in this thread was calling for "illegals to be sent home". But if you believe that people born here (even if born to "foreign parents") should be welcomed (and they should), then why not extend the same thinking for those who simply moved here as well?

What's the difference between moving and being born? The only difference is that you don't get to choose where you are born, so if anything, it should be more important where someone decides to move to.


You should know first hand how it works, since you can easily move from New York to Nevada and back as you please. When you go to Las Vegas, you can choose to either become a resident of Nevada or continue to be a resident of New York who happens to work in Nevada. So what is the difference between you and someone else who replaces the word "Nevada" with the word "Serbia" or "Mexico" or whatever? There is no difference. But for some reason you fail to see that.

And who's approval do you need to get in order to travel from New York to Nevada? No one's. So why should others need to get approval to move either? Someone born in Serbia has as much right to come work in New York City (even if they want to remain a citizen of Serbia) as you have to go work in Las Vegas (even if you want to remain a New York citizen).
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Old 02-15-2016, 11:24 PM
 
10,700 posts, read 3,742,867 times
Reputation: 4683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datafeed View Post
Thanks for your post. Your stuff is always moderated and informative. I post to learn not to rigidly advance an agenda.

1. I think you may be underestimating the impact of making it inhospitable for illegals to be here. Will they all leave? No. But if the heat was turned up many would say its not worth it and leave. Again, I think Romney was mocked unfairly for his self-deport comment.
And I think you are misjudging both the integration of a large portion of the illegals and the will of the US people to enact legislation that would compel them to leave.

Quote:
ME refuges are already returning back to the ME because European nations cut their welfare benefits. I think it was Belgium that repatriated a bunch--well 500.
ME refugees in Europe have not been there for 15 to 30 years.

Quote:
2. if political will existed we could get e-verify to work better. Why is there no political will? That's a good question to ask.
You really think you are going to get a stringent set of statutes against the wishes of every major business trade group in the US? You really think there is any way to get rid of the direct knowledge clause?


Quote:
3. I agree with you 100% of birthright citizenship. Nothing should or will be done about it. I want people born here to buy into the system than hating on our country. Extend the tent and assign responsibility.
But those kids make a full onslaught unworkable. So Schools out.


Quote:
4. Thanks for the intel about Vegas. I suspected something. I know a bunch of hot Brazilians that work front of the house at the Wynn and they are not here legally. I think they pay people to use their identities. A bunch of Russian cocktail waitresses do the same too.

How do you know so much about this? You dont live in vegas.
What do you think the lv stands for.

Note that Las Vegas has the highest per capita percentage of illegals of any major urban area. Yet it is not a local issue. And in general they do not work on the strip...but they do work everywhere else.

Strip illegals takes real doing. The Culinary is after the non-union shops and Adelson et al is after the culinary shops. Any simple ploy will get fired within months. It can be done but it is much more sophisticated than elsewhere. Talk to some of your ex-coworkers.
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Old 02-16-2016, 06:09 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoulesMSU View Post
Why does it matter where they are born? You fail to see that the logical extension of what you just said is that you should "want people LIVING here to buy into the system". Why does it matter how they got here, whether they were born here or moved from somewhere else?

This is why "illegal immigration" shouldn't even be a real phrase. If someone moves somewhere else, they should automatically become a citizen of that new place. Problem solved.
Uh; NO country allows that. Period. NO reason the US should allow anybody to come here without permission and "squat".
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Old 02-16-2016, 06:17 AM
 
31,475 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDocKat View Post
I think of them as work motivated, and there are jobs here many Americans feel too good to accept, despite their lack of job preparation. They seem to good bad from the exposure to American lazy values. Well, that is how I see it

Just what are these jobs that Americans supposedly won't do? Illegals have flooded the construction and commercial landscaping industries. Americans were already doing those jobs until millions of illegals came here willing to work for less. Some of the jobs that illegals have taken were entry level jobs for our American youth. Sick of the lazy American argument especially when you consider what I said in my second sentence.
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Old 02-17-2016, 03:08 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
3,674 posts, read 5,851,772 times
Reputation: 3553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datafeed View Post
I think you missed my point. I was making a logical assumption that those most affected by illegal immigration would be the most passionate about the issue.

Az because of its proximity to the border sees illegal immigrants differently than say, Maine. I bet if you polled people in Az the issues would be different than the issues in Washington.


I live in NYC and my issue is with the scheming Eastern Euros who have no respect for our laws and who trick people into marrying them as opposed to Mexicans. I dont really see too many Mexicans in NYC. Trump got busted for using illegal Poles via a subcontractor for some of his properties; i doubt that people in Az are worried about illegal Polish workers....maybe Bosnians but they all claimed refugee status in the early 2000s as a result of the war there and are all legal.

My point is that regional differences matter.

I also have a buddy who works as a DS Agent that tells me stories about how he routinely busts folks engaged in visa and marriage fraud but the SDNY US Attorneys office is too busy to prosecute such low level non political stuff.
Then you need glasses. Guess you never go to a restaurant, see a construction sight, go to fast food...

I'm on Staten Island and my neighborhood is infested with illegal Mexicans.
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Old 02-17-2016, 06:26 AM
 
Location: New York Area
13,402 posts, read 5,207,027 times
Reputation: 10756
Quote:
Originally Posted by dechatelet View Post
Profile them, round them up, arrest them, deport them. Put the ones you can't deport into camps. Make them dig their own wells, grow their own crops, build their own shelter.

Electrified barbed wire fencing along the border. E-Verify. Illegal immigration and hiring/harboring an illegal a felony with a mandatory minimum of 5 years of imprisonment.

Visa entry-exit tracking.

Send the military down to the border.

Increase the border patrol ten-fold.

Eliminate legal defenses to deportation.

Declare a national security emergency if necessary to do the above.
In theory that would be nice. But most of them are performing services and doing jobs that Americans don't want. And in general they're not consuming public services.

The dirty little secret hypocrisy that I'll admit to is that I'm rather partial to Hispanic immigrants. Middle Easterners not so much.
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Old 02-17-2016, 06:30 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
In theory that would be nice. But most of them are performing services and doing jobs that Americans don't want. And in general they're not consuming public services.

The dirty little secret hypocrisy that I'll admit to is that I'm rather partial to Hispanic immigrants. Middle Easterners not so much.
Easy way to fix that: kick out ANY illegal alien found then raise wages for US citizens and legal aliens. Too; def time to cut back on certain "welfare" kinds of benefits for unemployed people under maybe 50 years old who CAN work. Problem solved.
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Old 02-17-2016, 11:12 AM
 
31,475 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
In theory that would be nice. But most of them are performing services and doing jobs that Americans don't want. And in general they're not consuming public services.

The dirty little secret hypocrisy that I'll admit to is that I'm rather partial to Hispanic immigrants. Middle Easterners not so much.
Just what are these jobs that Americans don't want? Are you not aware that Americans were already doing construction and landscaping jobs and many other blue-collared jobs before the arrival of cheap, illegal laborers taking their jobs and/or reducing their wages? They consume a lot of public services. It costs us billions a year covering their social costs. They also send billions of dollars out of our country not spent in our economy.


Hispanic "immigrants"? Does that include the illegal kind? Why would anyone be partial to lawbreakers regardless of their ethnicity?
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Old 02-17-2016, 03:08 PM
 
Location: the Sticks
6,730 posts, read 1,897,245 times
Reputation: 3418
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoulesMSU View Post
Why does it matter where they are born? You fail to see that the logical extension of what you just said is that you should "want people LIVING here to buy into the system". Why does it matter how they got here, whether they were born here or moved from somewhere else?

This is why "illegal immigration" shouldn't even be a real phrase. If someone moves somewhere else, they should automatically become a citizen of that new place. Problem solved.
f a person doesn't respect a country enough to obey its laws, then they are unlikely to ever buy into the system.
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Old 02-18-2016, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,062,995 times
Reputation: 18141
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoulesMSU View Post
You are missing the fact that your first sentence in this thread was calling for "illegals to be sent home". But if you believe that people born here (even if born to "foreign parents") should be welcomed (and they should), then why not extend the same thinking for those who simply moved here as well?

What's the difference between moving and being born? The only difference is that you don't get to choose where you are born, so if anything, it should be more important where someone decides to move to.


You should know first hand how it works, since you can easily move from New York to Nevada and back as you please. When you go to Las Vegas, you can choose to either become a resident of Nevada or continue to be a resident of New York who happens to work in Nevada. So what is the difference between you and someone else who replaces the word "Nevada" with the word "Serbia" or "Mexico" or whatever? There is no difference. But for some reason you fail to see that.

And who's approval do you need to get in order to travel from New York to Nevada? No one's. So why should others need to get approval to move either? Someone born in Serbia has as much right to come work in New York City (even if they want to remain a citizen of Serbia) as you have to go work in Las Vegas (even if you want to remain a New York citizen).
We have immigration laws enacted by OUR country and for good reason.

The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship - interpretations and misinterpretations - US Constitution
Did Congress ever confer citizenship on anchor babies? - NetRight Daily
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ation-defense/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Just what are these jobs that Americans supposedly won't do? Illegals have flooded the construction and commercial landscaping industries. Americans were already doing those jobs until millions of illegals came here willing to work for less. Some of the jobs that illegals have taken were entry level jobs for our American youth. Sick of the lazy American argument especially when you consider what I said in my second sentence.
https://www.numbersusa.org/pages/jobs-americans-wont-do
Are There Really Jobs Americans Won
How Illegal Immigration Hurts Black America - The Root

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
In theory that would be nice. But most of them are performing services and doing jobs that Americans don't want. And in general they're not consuming public services.

The dirty little secret hypocrisy that I'll admit to is that I'm rather partial to Hispanic immigrants. Middle Easterners not so much.
Job issue is addressed in the above post. No consuming public services? Where have you been?

The cost of illegal immigration:

Welfare Use by Immigrant and Native Households | Center for Immigration Studies
https://www.numbersusa.com/problems/taxpayer-burden
Senate report: Illegal immigrants benefited from up to $750M in ObamaCare subsidies | Fox News
Medicaid for Illegal Immigrants | Emergency Medicaid
https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/ar...aliens-receive
Debunking the myth that illegal aliens don't get welfare

And, I could go on for hours.

Illegal aliens have entered the US without authorization which is a crime. Enforcing the law is the only thing that matters. We have millions of US citizens in prison for committing non-violent crimes. If illegal aliens are not held accountable for their crimes, those U S prisoners should be released.
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