U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-08-2008, 03:50 AM
 
Location: Michissippi
3,116 posts, read 6,970,539 times
Reputation: 2050

Advertisements

In the debate about Immigration, one of the overlooked and rarely mentioned issues is the issue of population explosion and the environment.

Does immigration contribute to population growth? (Yes.) Is there such a thing as having too high of a population density? Would individual Americans be better off with a lower population and a lower population density? Does having a high population negatively impact our environment--the quality of our air, the cleanliness of our water, and the number of trees? Does a higher population increase the costs of resources (land, food grown on land, water, wood, oil, minerals and metals, etc.)?

How many Americans would be too many? In the ten years between 1990 and 2000, according to Census Bureau stats, the nation's population exploded at a third world rate of growth of 32.7 million people. We've now passed the 300 million mark and it's projected that the nation's population will be over 450 million by 2050.

To get this discussion going, I suggest that everyone watch the thought provoking video, "Immigration Gumballs" where gumballs are used to visually demonstrate how mass immigration into the United States cannot solve world poverty or even alleviate it. It's a must watch video for anyone who's interested in the immigration issue:

Immigration Gumballs

The video is a little outdated because we've already surpassed 300 million people (not including the number of illegal aliens), but the issues and concerns are even more pressing and urgent today than they were when the talk was given.

Last edited by Bhaalspawn; 02-08-2008 at 04:28 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-08-2008, 04:39 AM
 
2 posts, read 7,085 times
Reputation: 14
Thank you for your timely post. I agree 100%. Yes, yes, yes, yes! I am sure we have a quota on how many folks (immigrants) we can accomodate and intergrate into our present society. With the illegal aliens question uppermost in our minds at the present time, it is ridiculous to believe we are not being impacted by the density of this population being absorbed into our society. This is a factor in the poor enconomic state of our country at the present time. People must have jobs, homes, food, clothing and shelter, or they are homeless. We cannot take care of the homeless people we have at this time, many of them veterans of our wars who cannot find employment. If we had less illegal aliens taking the lower paying jobs and living in commune type housing, these homeless folks would have jobs. They would be able to support themselves and their families. They would have housing, food, and clothing. We (the government) cannot afford to continue to support the non-working poor, or even the barely earning a living poor. Our free medical clinics and hospital are being over impacted with patients who cannot not pay for their care, or only a small portion, our schools are being over-crowded and our children are suffering for lack of books, qualified teachers and classrooms. I could continue, however, I will state over-population of any area will, without full economic support, cause it to eventually die. We cannot manufacture more land and more water for the population to use and consume. It is suicide of a people to believe otherwise. We have many "ghost towns" in this country for just this reason. My hometown is one of them. The diehards who still live there drive 50 to 100 miles, one way, to make a living wage. With the price of oil and gas ever increasing, they will have less and less to support themselves in food, clothing and shelter. The spiral will be downward and take quite sometime to return to normal.

Last edited by PrimeRib; 02-08-2008 at 04:46 AM.. Reason: additional information
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2008, 05:57 AM
 
1,474 posts, read 2,016,557 times
Reputation: 457
This is just my observation, based on many years of watching the market/economic growth cycle/ call to America.
I have nothing to base it on, its pure speculation and opinion........so
For years the concept of real growth in the economy was based on the ability of the market economy to provide goods and services to be sold to the consumer.
Be it consumable goods, staples, automotive , housing..........all market growth was directly related to consumerism.
A good Christmas season for the economy and the retail market was based on consumable purchases.
It really became obvious to me after 9-11. Remember when the president told Americans to not be afraid and to return to the malls and the business and to buy, shoppe spend?
Growth to the economy could not occur without this spending level.
So now here we set. Americans are tapped out. We have bought all the new house we can afford. We have bought the new SUV's and off road toys and recreation items, camping hunting fishing.
Our wives have remodeled the house so many times to keep up with the latest color in appliance that there is no equity left.
We have mortgaged our selves to the hilt so the kids could attend private school, or go to the best college on th east coast. We have nothing left, we can spend no more. we have nothing left
So.............................
For the retail and consumer market to continue to grow we have to have 20 million more people to come out of the shadows and spend themselves into oblivion so the retail market will grow.

This country used to base its market growth in manufacturing capability. Real value added. Something produced that was coveted world wide... That changed.
I can remember as a kid when we (my parents) would look at something made in Japan or Taiwan as "junk" don't waste your money.
Now we don't care where it was made as we accept the fact that most if not all of it is junk. But we blithfully buy that foreign made product and send our monetary wealth out of country.

Geez..... I'm blathering a bit..........Any way you get the point.......
and yes where I am or was going with this is the hugh increase in the population to sustain the economy will have a direct and dire impact on the services expected as they relate to the environment.
From water to sanitation to sewage, Public safety, housing, retail.........
it all begins to spiral together and become a mess.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2008, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
I tend to agree with all of the above posters except.......

The world population growth rate is declining.

Even Mexico; its birth rate has plummeted from 7.3 children per woman (1962) down to under 2.4 kids today (2007). The replacement birthrate is 2.1 children.

Aside from some African countries and parts of the Middle East: the average birthrate is 3 children or less. Hell: even Iran's 1.8 kids these days.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2008, 07:59 AM
 
1,861 posts, read 2,968,014 times
Reputation: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
I tend to agree with all of the above posters except.......

The world population growth rate is declining.

Even Mexico; its birth rate has plummeted from 7.3 children per woman (1962) down to under 2.4 kids today (2007). The replacement birthrate is 2.1 children.

Aside from some African countries and parts of the Middle East: the average birthrate is 3 children or less. Hell: even Iran's 1.8 kids these days.
Most of our growth has come from immigration - illegal or legal. If it was not for them, we'd be pretty steady.

I don't see how you can govern 300 million people, let alone 450 million in a few years or so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2008, 08:29 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
Reputation: 3010
My Geology professor has stated numerous times in class that those in geological academia are predicting that if the current water useage in the western United States continues along with the current drought cycle and population expansion, there will be severe water shortages in Nevada, Arizona, California, and Colorado by the year 2010. Unfortunately, those in the position to do anything about it are not listening.

That's not a whole lot of time to reverse the current trend in the southwest.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2008, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
My Geology professor has stated numerous times in class that those in geological academia are predicting that if the current water useage in the western United States continues along with the current drought cycle, there will be severe water shortages in Nevada, Arizona, California, and Colorado by the year 2010. Unfortunately, those in the position to do anything about it are not listening.

That's not a whole lot of time to reverse the current trend in the southwest.
Actually; the section of the USA that is in severe danger from droughts right now is the normally wet Southeast---------northern Georgia is the epicenter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2008, 08:51 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Actually; the section of the USA that is in severe danger from droughts right now is the normally wet Southeast---------northern Georgia is the epicenter.
Over the long haul though, the southeast is NOT in the midst of a hundred year drought cycle. The western states are. The western state's biomes consist of arid and semi-arid desert. These areas are not naturally inclined to support millions upon millions of humans whose water needs far outweigh the natural disposition of rainfall.

Of the water in the hydrosphere, only 3% of that is fresh water. Of that 3% - 2.7% is locked up in ice. -- Yet humans continue to procreate as if water is a highly renewable resource that is available at will--it is not.

The continued population increase in the western United States is a disaster waiting to happen--it is only a matter of time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2008, 11:59 AM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,158,301 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by cousinsal View Post
Most of our growth has come from immigration - illegal or legal. If it was not for them, we'd be pretty steady.

I don't see how you can govern 300 million people, let alone 450 million in a few years or so.
China is roughly almost the size of the U.S, a little bigger. They have A LOT more people than we do, so how are they doing it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2008, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
185 posts, read 319,512 times
Reputation: 149
This subject irks me too Bhaalspawn.

I think it was in the late 50's that there were 150 million people in America and in the short time since then we've gone to 300 million.

American citizens are reproducing at replacement rate while illegal aliens in their quest to take over are having 3-6 babies even though most can't even afford one.

They are draining our financial AND natural resources. They don't seem to think beyond tomorrow.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top