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Old 04-14-2016, 01:25 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
Reputation: 5895

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
Because, in a nutshell, it's beneficial to the large business interests to have a de-facto subservient working class.


Their ability to exploit the disadvantaged population allows cheap prices that permits higher profits. The handouts are a fraction of what the businesses themselves would have to pay, and even better they're covered by the general taxpayer. If you want to be mad, be mad at agribusiness and those that exploit the people, not the poor bastards caught in the system.






If you ever go through the legitimate immigration process, you know how easy it is for the government to keep tabs on you if they really, really want to. We could enforce all the rules tomorrow, but our economy would effectively collapse.
I don't believe it would hurt working Americans or legal aliens IF all illegals were run off. Tho it might hurt places like LA, SF, NYC, DC and so on because the people there would need to pay proper wages for their hired help. It is what it is.
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
7,827 posts, read 10,358,944 times
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It will hurt the working poor more than anyone else when the price of that tomato goes from $1.50 to $3.00 a pound because you now have to provide a taxable wage and appropriate coverage to your workers.


Restaurant prices increasing, anything that runs on manual or rather Manuel labor would skyrocket in price.


I'm not saying this as a defense of illegals, but more of the reality of the situation. There's no simple fix to the problem that has been created.
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:38 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
It will hurt the working poor more than anyone else when the price of that tomato goes from $1.50 to $3.00 a pound because you now have to provide a taxable wage and appropriate coverage to your workers.


Restaurant prices increasing, anything that runs on manual or rather Manuel labor would skyrocket in price.


I'm not saying this as a defense of illegals, but more of the reality of the situation. There's no simple fix to the problem that has been created.
Proof please that food would jump that much in price with NO illegal alien farm help.
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
7,827 posts, read 10,358,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Proof please that food would jump that much in price with NO illegal alien farm help.
USDA ERS - Farm Labor: Background


About 40% of the cost of fruits and vegetables is labor. 50% of the workforce is undocumented, so making far less than the average wage of about $9 an hour.


If you take away half the labor force, you have to first replace it with now fully paid and documented people, and then likely increase the pay of your retained people to keep them incentivized and to remain and not jump due to the sudden drop off in labor. We're not even talking about things like California's new $15/hr minimum wage either.


Plus your new people are paid by piecework, not actual wage.


the piece rate for orange juice in Florida is 85 cents per 90-pound box of oranges. Average productivity for a worker is 8 boxes per hour, which means that during an 8-hour workday, a worker will produce 64 boxes of oranges (or 5,760 pounds of oranges!). According to the 85 cents piece rate, a worker would receive only $6.80 an hour, which is significantly less than Florida’s $7.31 minimum wage (as of 2011).


Mature-green tomatoes are picked by hand into 32- to 35-pound buckets. In Florida, pickers receive $0.40 to $0.45 a bucket, a piece rate that reportedly has not changed significantly for two decades.


Low Wages - : National Farm Worker Ministry


I don't see a domestic labor force eager to be back working in the fields anytime soon.
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Old 04-14-2016, 02:18 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
USDA ERS - Farm Labor: Background


About 40% of the cost of fruits and vegetables is labor. 50% of the workforce is undocumented, so making far less than the average wage of about $9 an hour.


If you take away half the labor force, you have to first replace it with now fully paid and documented people, and then likely increase the pay of your retained people to keep them incentivized and to remain and not jump due to the sudden drop off in labor. We're not even talking about things like California's new $15/hr minimum wage either.


Plus your new people are paid by piecework, not actual wage.


the piece rate for orange juice in Florida is 85 cents per 90-pound box of oranges. Average productivity for a worker is 8 boxes per hour, which means that during an 8-hour workday, a worker will produce 64 boxes of oranges (or 5,760 pounds of oranges!). According to the 85 cents piece rate, a worker would receive only $6.80 an hour, which is significantly less than Florida’s $7.31 minimum wage (as of 2011).
+

Mature-green tomatoes are picked by hand into 32- to 35-pound buckets. In Florida, pickers receive $0.40 to $0.45 a bucket, a piece rate that reportedly has not changed significantly for two decades.


Low Wages - : National Farm Worker Ministry


I don't see a domestic labor force eager to be back working in the fields anytime soon.
Something ain't right about your quoted numbers since food prices have gone UP about 30 percent since about 2009 and, inflation has been MUCH less.

So we have to pay more for food IF it means paying real wages for legal help. Oh well.
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Old 04-14-2016, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Outside of Chicago
4,598 posts, read 3,750,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
I just had a thought. There has been an uptick in illegal immigrants at the border that are not from Mexico yet herald from Central and South America. Now that is a long walk or a ride on the roof of a train.
Is the Mexican Gov. helping these people cross their country?

Imagine if we started seeing the immigrants from South and Central America walk through the US like they do Mexico so they can get into Canada.

I wonder what the response from Canada would be if suddenly they had thousands of illegal immigrants swarming into their country?

What do you think Canada would do being such a liberal country that they are?
This thread makes me LOL...have you been watching Frisky Dingo where the main character suggests a pedestrian overpass to Canada to combat illegal immigration.

Now for a serious response. Canada would face the same scenario we face, and no the Mexican government isn't helping them cross. It looks pretty bad that people go to extremes to leave their country.
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Old 04-14-2016, 07:16 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,041 posts, read 5,072,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
I just had a thought. There has been an uptick in illegal immigrants at the border that are not from Mexico yet herald from Central and South America. Now that is a long walk or a ride on the roof of a train.
Is the Mexican Gov. helping these people cross their country?

Imagine if we started seeing the immigrants from South and Central America walk through the US like they do Mexico so they can get into Canada.

I wonder what the response from Canada would be if suddenly they had thousands of illegal immigrants swarming into their country?

What do you think Canada would do being such a liberal country that they are?
We should do what Mexico does and transport them to Canada.
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Old 04-14-2016, 08:18 PM
 
31,500 posts, read 14,573,470 times
Reputation: 8365
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
It will hurt the working poor more than anyone else when the price of that tomato goes from $1.50 to $3.00 a pound because you now have to provide a taxable wage and appropriate coverage to your workers.


Restaurant prices increasing, anything that runs on manual or rather Manuel labor would skyrocket in price.


I'm not saying this as a defense of illegals, but more of the reality of the situation. There's no simple fix to the problem that has been created.

The theory of produce or any other prices skyrocketing in price has been debunked over and over. We are already paying a lot for products when you factor in the social costs of illegal aliens via our taxes. There is no reality in what you are claiming.
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Old 04-14-2016, 08:21 PM
 
31,500 posts, read 14,573,470 times
Reputation: 8365
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
USDA ERS - Farm Labor: Background


About 40% of the cost of fruits and vegetables is labor. 50% of the workforce is undocumented, so making far less than the average wage of about $9 an hour.


If you take away half the labor force, you have to first replace it with now fully paid and documented people, and then likely increase the pay of your retained people to keep them incentivized and to remain and not jump due to the sudden drop off in labor. We're not even talking about things like California's new $15/hr minimum wage either.


Plus your new people are paid by piecework, not actual wage.


the piece rate for orange juice in Florida is 85 cents per 90-pound box of oranges. Average productivity for a worker is 8 boxes per hour, which means that during an 8-hour workday, a worker will produce 64 boxes of oranges (or 5,760 pounds of oranges!). According to the 85 cents piece rate, a worker would receive only $6.80 an hour, which is significantly less than Florida’s $7.31 minimum wage (as of 2011).


Mature-green tomatoes are picked by hand into 32- to 35-pound buckets. In Florida, pickers receive $0.40 to $0.45 a bucket, a piece rate that reportedly has not changed significantly for two decades.


Low Wages - : National Farm Worker Ministry


I don't see a domestic labor force eager to be back working in the fields anytime soon.

Only 2% of illegals are picking crops. There are unlimited visas for legal, foreign ag workers so there is no reason for Americans who live in urban areas to pick crops. It's not a career job anyway.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:46 AM
 
8,195 posts, read 10,212,024 times
Reputation: 7485
Canada will not let them in.

Ever travel to the Canadian border near Niagara Falls and walk into Canada,then stay for 10 mintues?

You cannot-if you do not have your Usa passport,The US border protral keeps you in Canada for up to 3 days until Us citizenship verified.

I visited Niagara Falls and could not even walk across the bridge.
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