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Old 05-26-2016, 10:35 AM
 
4,491 posts, read 1,496,484 times
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They should face jail time. Heavy fines won't do it for a lot of the people hiring them. Prison and the loss of a business may actually change things a bit.
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Old 05-26-2016, 10:39 AM
 
33,299 posts, read 14,541,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy84 View Post
Now this is just my opinion but I think the best way to stop illegal immigrants from "taking our jerbs" is realy simple but noone wants to do it...its not a fence or a wall or mass deportations, its

HEAVILY FINE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HIRING THE ILLEGAL WORKERS.

Seriously, every time law enforcement arrest other people who break the law, drug dealers, gun runners, human traffickers, people connected to organized crime, basically anything with a "head guy" there always seem to be a familiar trend...give us your supplier, who do you work for, where did you get "the stuff" they are always willing to make deals with the low level "worms" to get the "big fish" cut off the organization at its head. In theory if the organization is crippled it will reduce the illegal activity. Granted another outfit would take over sooner or later but at least there is a process.

However, when illegal immigrants are involved its round up the immigrant and get that person out of here and move on. The person that hired said illegal is free to go about their business and hire a new guy. here is how it works...

Chose ANY illegal activity...i'll chose drug dealing...now lets say i';m a cop (for the record I am not) I arrest a low level punk selling dime bags, I grill him and find his supplier, me and the fellow officers go to that supplier and go to his boss than the next boss and further and further up to chain to try and cripple the organization and hope for the best but of course the organization will get wise and try to stay away from the area and say "the cops are on to us" and its cat and mouse but at least something is being done.

it seems with illegal immigrants I can practically go to a job site in the morning, arrest lets say 5 illegal immigrants and walk away from the job site with ONLY the illegals...by the end of lunch the person doing THE HIRING has now replaced the 5 illegals with 5 more illegals because why not...its not like we did anything to him...this person who is hiring illegals just replaces them like paper cups because he face zero repercussions for his actions.

If we treated the people who HIRE illegals like the same people who are the boss of XYZ ILLEGAL operation I'm willing to bet that would solve the illegal immigrant problem a hell of alot quicker and cheaper than any wall could do. Lets say we fine said business owner who hired an illegal immigrant 5X the minimum wage per worker per day...so going back to the 5 immigrant example (7.25 x 5=$36.25 per hour for all 5 illegals x 8 (standard work day of 8 hours ) =290 x 5 workers=$1450) so a bussines owner who just hired 5 illegal immigrant workers for the day will now have to pay a fine of $1450 for the one day alone thats alot more than what they intended to pay those illegals for those work days or paying 5 AMERICANS to do the job for the day at minimum wage.

Why are we so afraid to go after the so called job creators when they are not even creating jobs for US???
"HEAVILY FINE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HIRING THE ILLEGAL WORKERS."

Good idea.I think that law is already on the books but, as we know, Obama ignores it as well as OTHER immigration laws.
Why does the Obama admin NOT go after "sanctuary cities?Why are illegal's children ALLOWED to go to our public schools?Obama wants to dictate MANY other things on those schools.There are MANY things the fed COULD do, but, Obama does NOT want to.As they say, "When a boat is leaking don't bother to attempt to bail it out, STOP the leak first'!
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Old 05-26-2016, 10:42 AM
 
33,299 posts, read 14,541,521 times
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Originally Posted by dannyboy84 View Post
What are you babbling...I think we should fine/arrest those who are doing the hiring. I don't get why we go after the heads of any other organization of illegal activity but we don't fine/arrest the Donald Trumps of the world.
"but we don't fine/arrest the Donald Trumps of the world."

Nice idea but, FIRST what has he done illegally?

Or are just another anti-Trumper making up things?
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Old 05-26-2016, 10:42 AM
 
Location: without prejudice
128 posts, read 65,626 times
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Actually the simplest solution is to allow seasonal workers and give Mexicans and Canadians automatic seasonal worker Visas. But the hidden problem is that then the farmers that enjoy exploiting illegal immigrants won't be able to do so because the formerly-illegal aliens would then be legitimized and able to call the cops in case of abuse. Also, legitimization of their migration status would eat into the profits of the Mexican-U.S. human trafficking industry.

All the US Govt. and Canada and Mexico have to do is allow for automatic six month seasonal worker permits for their respective subjects/citizens and voila. But if you really want to know the truth, the farmers and others that profit from human trafficking (for labor or sex) across the US-Mexico border don't want their profiteering and 'fun' to end.

Consider that the reason produce prices have skyrocketed is because a lot of produce goes unpicked due to crackdowns on 'illegal immigrant labor' and farmers have reported that most U.S.-ians do not want to pick produce so if 60% of the apples go unpicked and fall on the ground that creates a shortage and an excuse to price apples at $1 rather than ten cents. Either way, profits at your expense.

Giving automatic seasonal worker Visas or cards to anyone but felons and violent offenders makes perfect sense. Too much sense.
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Old 05-26-2016, 11:00 AM
 
28,411 posts, read 14,121,326 times
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We know that fixing the illegal immigration problem will take several actions; however, jail time for those who knowingly hire illegals should top the list.

We should also wutomatically deport any illegal if they run afoul of the law, which would also include things like speeding or not having insurance.
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Old 05-26-2016, 11:01 AM
 
229 posts, read 75,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"but we don't fine/arrest the Donald Trumps of the world."

Nice idea but, FIRST what has he done illegally?

Or are just another anti-Trumper making up things?

If he hired and ILLEGAL immigrant than that makes it ILLEGAL...much like paying for stolen property...and no I am not comparing people to property but its the same thing...and not trump specifically people who hire illegal immigrants need to be fined/jailed.
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Old 05-26-2016, 11:15 AM
 
44,564 posts, read 43,103,689 times
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I just thought of something. While I would be in favor of jail time and loss of business for those who hire illegals, there is something that could inadvertently happen. Fewer people will start businesses. Businesses that hire illegals all have one trait: Such owners are cheap. They hire illegals so they can pay them less than someone who is here legally. Business owners want the most amount of profit for the least amount of input. Paying workers is input. There is no loyalty to the employee from the business owner. We should never hire illegals. However, it is like a catch 22. Let businesses hire illegals, and the ones who are here legally get pushed out of the workforce. Severely punish businesses who hire illegals, and then fewer businesses will get started and there are still few jobs. Either way, regular working people lose.
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Old 05-26-2016, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,594 posts, read 9,424,935 times
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There is no more illegal worker problem. That ship has sailed. There are now more legal hispanics in this country that are the immediate first choice of any business entity looking for workforce above farm labor. City Data conservatives are not all that upset that farm laborers are illegal, or even that most hotel maids are illegal. The illegals Trump talks about deporting, have mostly aged out of the workforce. Their children are legal, and they work everywhere. This post is a day late and a dollar short and is a symptom of boredom, not any actual wisdom about the situation, nor does it have any practical solution in mind. Trump has boasted that he could commit murder in plain sight and it wouldn't be a problem for him. I think that Trumps hiring undocumented workers that are arriving in ever decreasing numbers because... lets admit it...again. America is tapped out. Can you say free fall boys and girls. Everyone who can do so is fleeing, not immigrating. The Wall will not be built to keep Mexicans out. They know better. The Wall will be to keep Americans in because no one will want to be here when our Debt to GDP gets much worse.
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Old 05-26-2016, 11:47 AM
 
229 posts, read 75,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I just thought of something. While I would be in favor of jail time and loss of business for those who hire illegals, there is something that could inadvertently happen. Fewer people will start businesses. Businesses that hire illegals all have one trait: Such owners are cheap. They hire illegals so they can pay them less than someone who is here legally. Business owners want the most amount of profit for the least amount of input. Paying workers is input. There is no loyalty to the employee from the business owner. We should never hire illegals. However, it is like a catch 22. Let businesses hire illegals, and the ones who are here legally get pushed out of the workforce. Severely punish businesses who hire illegals, and then fewer businesses will get started and there are still few jobs. Either way, regular working people lose.

While you have a good point if I may present a counter point?

Isn't that kind of cutting off one's nose to spite their face? These people take the attitude of I can't cut corners and screw people over so I'm not going to bother to have ambition? That would tank the economy in no time.

If you take that logic we are screwed no matter what...listen to all of Trump rhetoric and his supporters...he will magically deport all illegals and get rid of them. Essentially (in Their minds at least) bussiness owners will be forced to hire legal residents because there will be no illegals here to hire so I guess the next logical step would be to what abolish the minimum wage to offset the extra cost of hiring legal people so these business owners who are ever so untouchable could make profit?? but then no-one would be able to live and eventually people won't use those services and with no use of service means no hiring which means loss of income which means doom.

There was a time in this country where we wanted to help out of friends and neighbors, we didn;t mind having to sacrifice for the greater good. Remember when people bought war bonds, gave scrap metal, had special cards on their cars for gas? We just got too selfish, we live above our means, there are people who pay an ungodly amount in credit card bills every month and the sad part is all they are paying is interest not principle...look at your example about fewer businesses, we are being played for fools about illegals taking our jobs but if we try to do something the business owners will cash out and screw us all...that is not what America was founded on. meanwhile The people who benefit the most from illegal immigration laugh all the way to the bank...trump included
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Old 05-26-2016, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,594 posts, read 9,424,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCommander View Post
Actually the simplest solution is to allow seasonal workers and give Mexicans and Canadians automatic seasonal worker Visas. But the hidden problem is that then the farmers that enjoy exploiting illegal immigrants won't be able to do so because the formerly-illegal aliens would then be legitimized and able to call the cops in case of abuse. Also, legitimization of their migration status would eat into the profits of the Mexican-U.S. human trafficking industry.
My supermarket throws tons of unsold produce in dumpsters. Unsold because people can mostly do without Avocados for $1.00 each. The supermarket doesn't care. They made their profit when they sold 3 cases. It would have been nice to sell 6, but that requires the huge leap of faith that lowering the price to the point where they sell 6 cases will happen before they spoil. So they err on the side of quick profit.

It remains a fiction that Americans do not want to pick produce. They don't want to pick produce and live like homeless migrants, no. Should they? I mean, in other threads it is being discussed to use the homeless for labor because they can be paid $3/hr because they don't have the overhead (literally) that sheltered Americans do. You think that it really is the thing to move Central Americans from Mexico up to Washington where apples are harvested and then police their return to Mexico after the harvest? No! Just no. You should feel dirty just for thinking that that is any solution. Canadians? Canada is a First World country of its own. Its citizens don't need to come down to Washington to pick apples and get paid by the bushel! The only solution is to price apples fairly, pay workers fairly, and accept the profit that results. You know there is too much profit in the system when AgriBusiness concerns have billions and control trillions.
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