U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-26-2016, 03:16 PM
 
11,492 posts, read 5,511,317 times
Reputation: 9867

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCommander View Post
Actually the simplest solution is to allow seasonal workers and give Mexicans and Canadians automatic seasonal worker Visas. But the hidden problem is that then the farmers that enjoy exploiting illegal immigrants won't be able to do so because the formerly-illegal aliens would then be legitimized and able to call the cops in case of abuse. Also, legitimization of their migration status would eat into the profits of the Mexican-U.S. human trafficking industry.

All the US Govt. and Canada and Mexico have to do is allow for automatic six month seasonal worker permits for their respective subjects/citizens and voila. But if you really want to know the truth, the farmers and others that profit from human trafficking (for labor or sex) across the US-Mexico border don't want their profiteering and 'fun' to end.

Consider that the reason produce prices have skyrocketed is because a lot of produce goes unpicked due to crackdowns on 'illegal immigrant labor' and farmers have reported that most U.S.-ians do not want to pick produce so if 60% of the apples go unpicked and fall on the ground that creates a shortage and an excuse to price apples at $1 rather than ten cents. Either way, profits at your expense.

Giving automatic seasonal worker Visas or cards to anyone but felons and violent offenders makes perfect sense. Too much sense.

Why would Canadians want "automatic seasonal worker visas"? I know someone in Canada who lives in a resort community. The Canadians bring in Filipinos on "seasonal worker visas".

As for "a lot of produce goes unpicked due to crackdowns on illegal immigrant labor" --- that only happens to the sleazy farmers who refuse to use the agricultural visa program (which, btw, has no caps on it) and instead opt for cheap, exploitable, illegal labor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-26-2016, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,117 posts, read 9,205,456 times
Reputation: 8988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
[1] That is an irresponsible suggestion.
[2] I suppose that .1% would be for national defense.

With all the tax revenue that is currently collected, America is woefully lacking in many things, like
[3] infrastructure adequate for the 21st Century.

[4] Conservatives say that they want govt. spending to stop, but they actually don't. If they thought for one nanonosecond that someone might actually listen to them and do it, they would completely silent! Be careful what you ask for, even if you don't actually mean it.
[1] CONCLUSION NOT SUPPORTED BY FACTS
[2] NO.
[3] Before the "Progressive" government confiscated the infrastructure, it was privately owned and operated -for profit- (shudder).
[4] There is no partisanship in the republican form of government. If you wish to argue about the socialist democratic form, that's a different topic.

In the Declaration, Thomas Jefferson wrote that men were endowed with rights that governments were instituted to secure. And that only by consent could the government rule. Without consent of the governed, such governments were limited to securing endowed rights... that is to say adjudicate disputes, prosecute criminals, and defend against enemies foreign and domestic.

That does not require government taking 44% of the GDP.

The reduction to 0.1% (based on $3.688 trillion spent in 2015) would amount to $3,688,000,000.00
That is still a stupendous sum. Almost as much as was spent on WW2.

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS22926.pdf
World War II
Total Cost for 1941-1945
Current Year . . . . . $ 296 billion
Constant FY2011. . $4,104 billion
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2016, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,594 posts, read 9,427,321 times
Reputation: 9198
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
[1] CONCLUSION NOT SUPPORTED BY FACTS
[2] NO.
[3] Before the "Progressive" government confiscated the infrastructure, it was privately owned and operated -for profit- (shudder).
[4] There is no partisanship in the republican form of government. If you wish to argue about the socialist democratic form, that's a different topic.

In the Declaration, Thomas Jefferson wrote that men were endowed with rights that governments were instituted to secure. And that only by consent could the government rule. Without consent of the governed, such governments were limited to securing endowed rights... that is to say adjudicate disputes, prosecute criminals, and defend against enemies foreign and domestic.

That does not require government taking 44% of the GDP.

The reduction to 0.1% (based on $3.688 trillion spent in 2015) would amount to $3,688,000,000.00
That is still a stupendous sum. Almost as much as was spent on WW2.

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS22926.pdf
World War II
Total Cost for 1941-1945
Current Year . . . . . $ 296 billion
Constant FY2011. . $4,104 billion
So... the routers, switches and hubs that make the Internet work... people should buy them and keep them running? Interstate highways? I mean... I've heard of "Adopt-A-Highway" but... I don't know. If it's all the same to you I'll keep things the way they are. Private prisons scare the daylights out of me and they would ALL be that way in your utopia. Instead of 12% of black Americans incarcerated it would be 60%. All of them working in the meat packing, furniture making, landscaping and other industries that would be impossible or impractical to outsource. BTW the current crop of Navy destroyers cost 22.2 billion apiece. Attack submarines aren't far behind that. I don't even want to think about what an aircraft carrier costs. That does require govt. taking 44% of the GDP.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2016, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,117 posts, read 9,205,456 times
Reputation: 8988
The remedy to stem the flow of illegal aliens begins with trimming the government, by 99.9%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
[1] So... the routers, switches and hubs that make the Internet work... people should buy them and keep them running?

[2] Interstate highways? I mean... I've heard of "Adopt-A-Highway" but... I don't know. If it's all the same to you I'll keep things the way they are.

[3] Private prisons scare the daylights out of me and they would ALL be that way in your utopia.

[4] Instead of 12% of black Americans incarcerated it would be 60%.

[5] All of them working in the meat packing, furniture making, landscaping and other industries that would be impossible or impractical to outsource.

[6] BTW the current crop of Navy destroyers cost 22.2 billion apiece. Attack submarines aren't far behind that. I don't even want to think about what an aircraft carrier costs.

[7] That does require govt. taking 44% of the GDP.
[7] Which "enemy" is threatening the uSA?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_expenditures
(Budget in billions) FY 2015
1 United States . . . 596
2 China . . . . . . . . 215
3 Saudi Arabia . . . . 87.2
4 Russia . . . . . . . . 66.4
5 United Kingdom . 55.5
6 India . . . . . . . . . 51.3
7 France . . . . . . . . 50.9
8 Japan . . . . . . . . .40.9
9 Germany . . . . . . 39.4
10 South Korea . . . 36.4
11 Brazil . . . . . . . . 24.6
12 Italy . . . . . . . . 23.8
13 Australia . . . . . 23.6
14 United Arab Em. 22.8
15 Israel . . . . . . . .16.1

[6] I find no obvious justification for burdening the American people.

[5] I do not share your disdain for the laborer.

[4] I do not ascribe to the belief that blacks are intrinsically incapable of being productive people. The current social system penalizes the productive and rewards the nonproductive. In that light, they are quite clever at prospering under such a mad system.

[3] Why do you assume there would be 'private' prisons. And if there are no more victimless crimes, the situation would change dramatically. Consider what our forefathers did, with far less resources.

[2] Before the "Progressive" theft of the infrastructure by government, America had plenty of transportation. In fact, toll roads, toll bridges, ferries, shipping, canals, railroads, etc, were all private enterprise. And if they made a mistake, it wasn't the taxpayer on the hook for fixing things.

Today? "Progressive" California can't even get their High Speed Rail project on board... bumping completion to 2022... for a mere 800 miles !

In contrast, American free enterprise built the world's largest rail network, using animal and human labor.

Peak heavy rail mileage: 254,000 miles (less than 160,000 miles today - thanks to punitive taxation)
Streetcar track: 34,404 miles by 1907, in over 140 cities, with 60,000 cars in service.
Interurban track: 15,500 miles by 1917
(Total rail mileage was over 300,000 miles)
(FYI - electric rail boomed between 1890 - 1920)

In contrast - - - -
Interstate Highway System : 47,714 miles

[1] Do you really not read what you are writing?
Who do you think are running ISPs, etc?
Not.Government.

Back to private ownership of infrastructure. . .

Known facts:
TRANSPORT - The most efficient form of land transportation is electric traction rail, with a 20:1 advantage over pneumatic tire on pavement. Yet the government subsidizes the wasteful automobile / petroleum / pavement hegemony, while penalizing the private rail systems with ridiculous rules and heavy taxes.

Shifting 80% of cargo and passenger to electric rail would lower petroleum consumption below current production rates, eliminating the importation of oil. An electric rail initiative would do far more to “save energy” than any carbon counting or punitive taxation.
Science of Railway Locomotion
The short explanation is that a rail based vehicle requires 95% less energy than an equivalent rubber tire vehicle (if already in motion), and 90% less energy to move from a dead stop. (And the newer electric trains can recover braking energy, cutting that figure down.)

The Oil Drum | Multiple Birds
"... Electrifying existing rail freight would trade 2.6 to 3 BTUs of diesel for one BTU of electricity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak
04. AMTRAK
From the middle 19th century until approximately 1920, nearly all intercity travelers in the United States moved by rail. The rails and the trains were owned and operated by private, for-profit organizations.
For a long time after 1920, passenger rail's popularity diminished and there was a series of pullbacks and tentative recoveries. Rail passenger revenues declined dramatically between 1920 and 1934 because of the rise of the [subsidized] automobile. In the same period, many travelers were lost to interstate bus companies such as Greyhound Lines
. . .
During the war, troop movements and restrictions on automobile fuel generated a sixfold increase in passenger traffic from the low point of the Great Depression. After the war, railroads rejuvenated overworked and neglected fleets with fast and often luxurious streamliners epitomized by the Super Chief and California Zephyr which inspired the last major resurgence in passenger rail travel. The postwar resurgence was short-lived
. . .
The causes of the decline of passenger rail in the United States were complex. Until 1920, rail was the only practical form of intercity transport, but the industry was subject to government regulation and labor inflexibility. By 1930, the railroad companies had constructed, with private funding, a vast and relatively efficient transportation network, but when the federal government began to construct the National Highway System, the railroads found themselves faced with unprecedented competition for passengers and freight with automobiles, buses, trucks, and aircraft, all of which were heavily subsidized by the government road and airport building programs.

... railroads carried a substantial tax burden. A World War II era excise tax of 15% on passenger rail travel survived until 1962. Local governments, far from providing needed support to passenger rail, viewed rail infrastructure as a ready source for property tax revenues. In one extreme example, in 1959, the Great Northern Railway, which owned about a third of one percent (0.34%) of the land in Lincoln County, Montana, was assessed more than 91% of all school taxes in the county. To this day, railroads are generally taxed at a higher rate than other industries, and the rates vary greatly from state to state.

Railroads also faced antiquated work rules and inflexible relationships with trade unions. Work rules did not adapt to technological change. Average train speeds had doubled from 1919 to 1959, but unions resisted efforts to modify their existing 100- to 150-mile work days. As a result, railroad workers' average work days were roughly cut in half, from 57 hours in 1919 to 23 hours in 1959. Labor rules also perpetuated positions that had been obviated by technology. Between 1947 and 1957, passenger railroad financial efficiency dropped by 42% per mile.
- - - end of excerpt - - -
As always, once government strays from "securing rights," it becomes the problem, not the solution. As to the alleged unprofitability of urban rail / streetcars, do not forget that in addition to the imposition of the INCOME TAX (post 1916), municipalities controlled what the rail companies could charge. This created an impossible condition of diminishing profits that ended in collapse, thanks to government.

The problem of illegal immigration can be traced back to the GOVERNMENT imposing huge tax burdens on LEGAL workers and employers. To remain profitable, businesses hire undocumented workers "under the table" in order to survive.

Eliminating 99% of the taxes and bureaucratic overhead would eliminate any benefit for hiring "off the books" as well as luring back expatriate industries.

With the abolition of the socialist system, there would be no advantage for "anchor babies" nor freebies to attract nonproductive people.

Just say "No!" to socialist democracy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2016, 07:09 PM
 
9,962 posts, read 11,815,123 times
Reputation: 13278
The OP has the answer and I would like to refine it a bit.

First we need a government that will identify those who work as here legally before they are hired.

Government issued photo ID is a must right along with the social security card.

Any employer caught skirting the issue by paying an illegal is subject to a mandatory $1,000 per day fine.

Half that fine, $500 per day per illegal worker, is split 50-50, and exempt from ALL state and federal taxes, with the employee that turns the wayward employer in. A reward so to speak and one that will instantly shut down all illegal hiring as would a wall 100 feet high.

Sooooooooooooo, if you discovered your employer hired ten illegals paying them over a 30 day period would you turn him in for $150,000 tax free even if it did mean you would be fired?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2016, 05:43 AM
 
Location: Upstate NY
30,411 posts, read 9,092,686 times
Reputation: 28951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
America is so has been, even the illegals aren't coming here anymore. Seriously. It's no longer a thing. All the illegals that wanted to come here are here. Its the legal immigration you need to be worried about! Legal immigrants are going to be doing not only the low wage scut work (do you or anyone you know want to be a hotel maid?) but nearly all the higher wage work too. When last did you see a hotel maid that wasn't Central American? Is it possible that Donald Trump who made a fortune in the Hospitality Industry is not up past his elbows in illegal hires? Who is going to arrest Trump?

Somebody doesn't know that San Diego is the latest entry point for 25,000 illegals a day showing up, mostly from Haiti .

Yes, now Americans have to contend with the next dependent class, Haitians, many of whom are boarding planes to Tijuana, where they can just walk right over the border. Nice country, this America. Oh, and as was the case with the bearded "children" from Central America (still flooding in, BTW) photographs, filming, and interviews at the hangar where they're being "detained" are verboten.

Wake up, sheeple. It's not just "work" that's attracting the unskilled and uneducated (with huge families) here. Not by a long shot.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2016, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,068,763 times
Reputation: 18141
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Do you have any evidence that Trump knowingly allowed his companies to hire illegals?

If not, you are just being dishonest.
They have NO evidence. There was one story about one of Trump's sub-contractors where the people interviewed said someone there might be an illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
We already have the unlimited H-2A visas for agricultural workers. Many of the greedy growers hire cheap, illegals instead to increase their profits. If any produce goes unpicked because they got caught with illegal workers they only have themselves to blame.


I just wanted to add that only 2% of illegals are picking crops anyway. That isn't the major part of the illegal immigration problem because the rest of them are doing jobs that Americans have always done for a fair wage such as construction, landscaping, restaurant and hotel work.
1 in every 8 white collar jobs is held by an illegal alien. I have been watching illegal workers replace citizen workers for quite some time now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
Ummm...my daughter worked as a hotel maid for a summer when she was in college.

Plenty of Americans work as hotel maids. You must not get out much---or if you do, you're not observant. I've seen and talked to hotel maids that are Americans and doing the work in immigrant-heavy cities.

Just watch "Hotel Impossible" on the Travel Channel. On that show, you will see Americans working as maids even in hotels that are total dumps. Do you know why they take these jobs? I'll tell you---1) They live in an area where unemployment is high and job opportunities are scarce; 2) They are unskilled workers who want to earn an honest living, rather than take welfare.

With illegals being a dime a dozen, some hotel owners will even threaten to fire Americans who ask for raises, telling them that they can easily replace them with illegals.
Are There Really Jobs Americans Won

Take their jobs and they'll live off their anchor babies, selling illegal drugs and stealing but it will put them on the run and easier to catch. WALL, return to workplace raids, make hospitals, schools and government offices mandated reporters when they suspect someone is an illegal alien. Hopefully, people have been entering data in databases of the illegals that get driver's licenses, etc. to speed the deportation process.

Anchor babies do not anchor them but are real cash cows. Shut it down.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2016, 07:28 AM
 
31,495 posts, read 14,573,470 times
Reputation: 8356
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
They have NO evidence. There was one story about one of Trump's sub-contractors where the people interviewed said someone there might be an illegal.



1 in every 8 white collar jobs is held by an illegal alien. I have been watching illegal workers replace citizen workers for quite some time now.



Are There Really Jobs Americans Won

Take their jobs and they'll live off their anchor babies, selling illegal drugs and stealing but it will put them on the run and easier to catch. WALL, return to workplace raids, make hospitals, schools and government offices mandated reporters when they suspect someone is an illegal alien. Hopefully, people have been entering data in databases of the illegals that get driver's licenses, etc. to speed the deportation process.

Anchor babies do not anchor them but are real cash cows. Shut it down.

IMO, birthright citizenship for their kids is just as much of an incentive for them to come here as jobs are. Why are so many for e-verify and yet overlook that huge magnet or are opposed to changing it? Actually, with DAPA their U.S. born kids are anchoring them to our country. We'll see if that sticks next month when the Supreme Court rules on it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2016, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Secure Bunker
5,464 posts, read 2,300,270 times
Reputation: 5231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
IMO, birthright citizenship for their kids is just as much of an incentive for them to come here as jobs are. Why are so many for e-verify and yet overlook that huge magnet or are opposed to changing it? Actually, with DAPA their U.S. born kids are anchoring them to our country. We'll see if that sticks next month when the Supreme Court rules on it.

Walk through almost any hospital in south Texas or San Diego and you will find lots of pregnant women who have only been in the US for a few hours.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2016, 11:56 AM
 
16,699 posts, read 8,643,559 times
Reputation: 4688
Yet another example why we should license and background check on the freedom of speech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCommander View Post
Inquity/inequity is the problem.
Have you visited North Korea? Inequality is non issue there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCommander View Post
People that have money but don't want to compensate people equitably for their services/goods,
What's the "equitable compensation" for their services/goods? How do you determine that? By the market, the government, you or Hilary Clinton?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCommander View Post
but yet run supermarkets and shops and price everything fraudulently high.
What's "fraudulently high?" Is that not supply and demand? Why shouldn't people sell their goods and services as any prices as long as the buyers are not forced to pay? For example, why shouldn't the drug executive jack up the price for live saving medicine 5000%?


Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCommander View Post
These days, few people realize that ridiculously over-pricing something would have been regarded as fraud maybe fifty years ago.
What the ...?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top