U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-28-2016, 06:06 PM
 
10,693 posts, read 3,738,322 times
Reputation: 4683

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
His solution as noted in here is to legalize most illegal aliens here and that way we will have to call them legal instead and therefore it cuts back on the population we will still have to call illegal. I guess changing the terminology fixes the problem.
Yes and that is the virtually certain outcome. The only real question is whether the population of illegaqls is allowed to grow before we legalize. And we have to do it deeply enough that we can manage and, if neccessary, deport the remainder.

Legalize is to avoid the discussions about making the illegals into voters. Let them wait 20 years or so. I expect we will eventually offer them citizenship but there is no hurry. We want them out of the shadows and behaving as normal residents. We can also limit there access to welfare programs and such again avoiding any great increase in expense. There entitilement flows mostly from their legal children however which will remain.

I am utterly skeptical about tightening employment for the illegal. Sure it would be a good thing to do but there is huge and capable resistance to the idea. You basically need to get rid of the "knowingly hiring" clause and subcontracting. That ain't gonna happen.

My drive for this solution is because there has been nothing else proposed that has a chance of working. Fantasies like self deportation simply prevent rationally attacking the problem.

And we need to do it before some cyclic downturn drives the Mexicans or other central Americans into relaunching the attack.

I would also like to see some directed aid to improve things in Mexico and Central America. Mexico has gotten good enough to reverse the flow...more leaving then coming in. We could reinforce that and do it for well less than some of these absurd schemes to deport millions.

Also end up giving up another source of fruit and vegatables and nice places for vacation or winter homes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-28-2016, 08:18 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Yes and that is the virtually certain outcome. The only real question is whether the population of illegaqls is allowed to grow before we legalize. And we have to do it deeply enough that we can manage and, if neccessary, deport the remainder.

Legalize is to avoid the discussions about making the illegals into voters. Let them wait 20 years or so. I expect we will eventually offer them citizenship but there is no hurry. We want them out of the shadows and behaving as normal residents. We can also limit there access to welfare programs and such again avoiding any great increase in expense. There entitilement flows mostly from their legal children however which will remain.

I am utterly skeptical about tightening employment for the illegal. Sure it would be a good thing to do but there is huge and capable resistance to the idea. You basically need to get rid of the "knowingly hiring" clause and subcontracting. That ain't gonna happen.

My drive for this solution is because there has been nothing else proposed that has a chance of working. Fantasies like self deportation simply prevent rationally attacking the problem.

And we need to do it before some cyclic downturn drives the Mexicans or other central Americans into relaunching the attack.

I would also like to see some directed aid to improve things in Mexico and Central America. Mexico has gotten good enough to reverse the flow...more leaving then coming in. We could reinforce that and do it for well less than some of these absurd schemes to deport millions.

Also end up giving up another source of fruit and vegatables and nice places for vacation or winter homes.
Then Mexico NEEDS to step up and kick ITS illegal aliens OUT.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2016, 08:24 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by phxone View Post
Trump's wall will never be built, it is a stupid idea and only the most naļve fools in the world are falling for it. The Federal government would need to purchase a large amount of privately owned land and the arguments about fair market value from compliant landowners would bog down the courts for years. Add a few landowners that are unwilling to sell their land to the Feds to the mix and now you are talking about decades of court battles trying to forcibly acquire the land through eminent domain.


Even if you get past the land acquisition problem, now you are trying to build a wall through some of the most desolate and dangerous terrain on the planet. As no infrastructure exists in the border area to move labor and materials for a project of this magnitude, provide housing for construction workers, etc it would take years just to get everything built to make wall construction possible.


And the entire time wall construction is taking place, lawsuits would be filed by activists, residents, environmental groups, etc. each asking for temporary injunctions that could halt progress by months or even years as the cases work through the various levels of the court system - both federal and state. Sabotage would be an ongoing and daily occurrence too.


Anyone that has ever traveled through far southern Arizona and/or been involved with the construction of large government projects understands how ridiculous and silly any belief that a wall will ever be built really is.


In terms of scale and difficulty, it would be like building dozens of Hoover Dams on the surface of Mars while begin sued by thousands of people and facing the active opposition of several foreign governments and about 50% of American citizens. I seriously question the intellect of anyone foolish enough to actually think it is going to happen.


Another point - the cost estimates I have seen in the $10 billion range are insanely low. To put the cost in perspective, some renovations to the bridges that connect El Paso to Juarez cost about $90 million and took 18 months to complete. That is for two bridges at one border crossing - renovations not construction from scratch. So the notion that the Feds can purchase acres and acres of land, build temporary infrastructure and housing for construction purposes and build a wall completely along the southern border of the US for $10 billion is so silly it is really not even worth discussing.
I DON'T care what other countries think; if they're that butt hurt about the US getting serious about deporting and keeping illegal aliens out, then let those other countries take those people in.

Too; not "all" of our border with Mexico needs to be blocked off; deserts are damn good barriers in keeping people out, set up water stations less than 1 mile inland and, have ALL of them monitored by the Border Patrol and just run in and detain any person till he can prove he's NOT an illegal alien.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2016, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge
2,423 posts, read 2,998,688 times
Reputation: 2485
The border will never be secured. Too many people in the government want things to be just like they are because their careers depend on illegal immigrants especially the groups that support illegals. If illegal immigration gets solved most of these cushy jobs will disappear. They work the system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2016, 05:32 AM
 
25,454 posts, read 23,266,873 times
Reputation: 15310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyster View Post
We don't need an actual "wall". A well built fence (which is less expensive than an actual wall) with plenty of Border Patrol personnel will do the job fine.

When I lived in San Diego I lived about 2 miles from the border (in Imperial Beach). Illegal immigration was a HUGE problem there. They built a fence and manned it and illegal crossings dropped there by about 95%. You can read about it here:

San Diego Fence Provides Lessons in Border Control : NPR

This nonsense we hear that insists that we can't physically secure our border is just that... nonsense. We can and we have a working example.
You betcha it's nonesense....thank you!

I'm also with the poster who said, "fine everyone who hires illegals "1,000.00 per day"
I wonder, what laws are actually on the books, I bet, there is one which speaks of fines to anyone who hires them. Used to be years ago, hollywood movie stars would be the only ones to hire them, b/c they could get away with it....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2016, 05:34 AM
 
25,454 posts, read 23,266,873 times
Reputation: 15310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
I DON'T care what other countries think; if they're that butt hurt about the US getting serious about deporting and keeping illegal aliens out, then let those other countries take those people in.

Too; not "all" of our border with Mexico needs to be blocked off; deserts are damn good barriers in keeping people out, set up water stations less than 1 mile inland and, have ALL of them monitored by the Border Patrol and just run in and detain any person till he can prove he's NOT an illegal alien.
Other countries are getting sick of it....and I believe the day is coming, when all those in favor of this, will be voted out....i.e. Rubio/Bush, we've seen what it is doing to other countries....

Bush has to be for it, b/c he married an illegal, many years ago. I couldn't believe it then....back then it was unheard of....and illegal to do so...and yet, he still got voted in? Ya gotta wonder?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2016, 06:43 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8349
For the umpteenth time a 700 mile wall has already been approved by congress. It's not to be built on rugged, impassable terrain but on the most porous areas of the border where illegal aliens are getting through because they are the easiest places for them to cross right now. Those would also be the easiest places to build the wall. This will force them to try and cross at the most difficult and dangerous places so fewer will try. This isn't rocket science.


If the 700 mile wall weren't feasible then congress wouldn't have approved it. Considering that illegal aliens are costing us $113 billion a year and would continue to rise with more pouring in the wall would pay for itself before long. It's not only those looking for work coming here but criminals and terrorists also. IMO, those opposing the wall have a vested interest in keeping the flow coming and actually want those already here to remain here. They have said so themselves with their constant "solution" to legalize them. That does not solve the problem at all. We need to get as many out of our country as we can and stop more from coming here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2016, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
6,406 posts, read 2,257,669 times
Reputation: 3387
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizrulesSD View Post
I hear Trump and others say "We need to secure to border!!!" but have we stopped to consider if this is even possible given the set of rules we have. It is one thing if we were to militarize it but considering it will never happen, does anyone really think that we can secure 2000 miles of desert?

Just a thought.

Asking if we can is kind of silly.....Where there's a will, there's a way.


Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a lot of will going around outside of Trump supporters.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2016, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,259 posts, read 79,427,308 times
Reputation: 38626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
How does giving millions of illegal aliens permission to stay here solve the problem? They would still be here! All of a sudden we wouldn't be able to call them illegal anymore so that's makes it sustainable simply by being able to calling them legal instead? WTH? Then the next batch would come and the game would continue.
I will continue to believe there are answers that do not require sending everyone back and there are ways to start cracking down, but to expect to send 11 million or more back, break up families, etc. isn't even reasonable nor workable. Lets start simply, by not giving them any government benefits. from there we make sure anyone who has committed a crime other than maybe a traffic citation gets the boot. If they return they spend years in prison. We need to make sure visas are not overstayed and we need to introduce a good worker permit program.

Also, no matter what we do, it is not going to totally stop the flow of illegals.

All we have to do is hear Mia Love's story to realize the law can not be cut and dry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2016, 12:52 PM
 
44,564 posts, read 43,091,728 times
Reputation: 14375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Um, just what I said and you just repeated it yourself along with stop trading with them.
We could stop. However, how would that make them pay, especially if they can trade with other countries?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top