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Old 07-05-2009, 05:18 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,823 posts, read 30,101,014 times
Reputation: 17698

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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil leftist dogma View Post
He's not fighting anyone. The Minutemen movement is ridiculous pseudo-patriotic chest-beating by middle aged men who have nothing better to do. It's not patriotic, it isn't going to stop illegal immigration, and it's not going to impress anyone with an iota of intelligence. The fact that they would compare themselves to the heroic Minutemen of the Revolutionary War is pretty crass- chasing a bunch of unarmed illegal aliens across the desert doesn't even compare.
I guess the Coyotes front and rear of the line of people packing AKs or cheap Chinese knocks offs don't count? I've seen this multiple times hiking in the back Country.
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Old 07-05-2009, 05:20 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,823 posts, read 30,101,014 times
Reputation: 17698
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil leftist dogma View Post
In the same way clowns call attention to themselves. By making a bunch of noise, being crass and obnoxious and making a scene. It may have had good results, but in my opinion bragging about being a Minuteman as if the act itself somehow makes him less of a coward is pretty transparent. People who want to be heroes but can't join the military, so they unprofessionally tote their .12 gauge shot guns around in self-righteous desperation. They need a cause like anyone else, and it just so happens that there's one right here for them.
The first few lines of your comparison could be plug and play for La Raza.
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Old 07-05-2009, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Travelling
122 posts, read 132,007 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Care to explain the 'brown' Hispanics who are also Minutemen--------or; since they do not toe the pro illegal line, that makes them White supremacists as well?
Racism is wrong no matter who is perpetrating it or in what direction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
The first few lines of your comparison could be plug and play for La Raza.
I don't follow La Raza.
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Old 07-05-2009, 05:37 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,823 posts, read 30,101,014 times
Reputation: 17698
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil leftist dogma View Post
Racism is wrong no matter who is perpetrating it or in what direction.



I don't follow La Raza.
Good. I was stating that there are hard liners on both sides of the debate as seen by the thousands of marchers waving flags demanding rights on tv.

Did you know many MM are Latino? As are the Border Patrol. Actually, in many Cities the BP is mostly Latino because they need to speak Spanish as we border Mexico.
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Old 07-05-2009, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Travelling
122 posts, read 132,007 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Good. I was stating that there are hard liners on both sides of the debate as seen by the thousands of marchers waving flags demanding rights on tv.

Did you know many MM are Latino? As are the Border Patrol. Actually, in many Cities the BP is mostly Latino because they need to speak Spanish as we border Mexico.
There are also a lot of very well-known racists. Case and point, Glenn Spencer.

Border security is not an excuse to degrade a culture of people. That is racist. Hispanics are a race of people, just like the Celts are a race of people and the Jews are a race of people. Racism doesn't just refer to skin colour, it refers to discrimination and dismissal of people based on their culture.

A lot of Minutemen seem to be racist. That, to me, is indicative that the Minutemen are used by racists to use patriotism as a shroud. People regularly invoke patriotism to justify xenophobic or racist behavior- Christian Knights or KKK or what-have-you. It is also vigilantism, which looks good in comic books but not so much in real life. Invoke the national guard, write to your governor and have him declare a state of emergency... do whatever. But have trained soldiers out patrolling the desert. Not a bunch of gun-toting self-proclaimed patriots. It promotes racism.

I consider them almost as bad, if not as bad, as MEChA.
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Old 07-05-2009, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,650,644 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil leftist dogma View Post
There are also a lot of very well-known racists. Case and point, Glenn Spencer.

Border security is not an excuse to degrade a culture of people. That is racist. Hispanics are a race of people, just like the Celts are a race of people and the Jews are a race of people. Racism doesn't just refer to skin colour, it refers to discrimination and dismissal of people based on their culture.

A lot of Minutemen seem to be racist. That, to me, is indicative that the Minutemen are used by racists to use patriotism as a shroud. People regularly invoke patriotism to justify xenophobic or racist behavior- Christian Knights or KKK or what-have-you. It is also vigilantism, which looks good in comic books but not so much in real life. Invoke the national guard, write to your governor and have him declare a state of emergency... do whatever. But have trained soldiers out patrolling the desert. Not a bunch of gun-toting self-proclaimed patriots. It promotes racism.

I consider them almost as bad, if not as bad, as MEChA.
Looking at the antics of MEChA, the Mexica Movement, etc. along with the myriad of pro amnesty groups----------I can understand the racism growing against at least Spanish speakers, most of whom happen to be Mestizos.

Frankly: if the la raza types truly gave a damn about illegals; they would encourage the latter to return home then get in line to come here legally.

As for racism against 'brown' Hispanics: one of the biggest group of offenders are White Latinos. Hispanic culture is White supremacist: the standard of beauty in both Mexico and Spain is white skin and blue eyes----------which crosses out about 95% of Mexico's population.
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Old 07-05-2009, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,220,459 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil leftist dogma View Post
Yeah you're right, the youth of America is behind them:


YouTube - Mexican vs. Racist Angry white minutemen


YouTube - "god gave the power to the white americans" minuteman and Christian right wing nutjob


Wait, I don't see anyone but old people there. Old people who are trying not to make it blatantly obvious they are racists, but still.
I don't care what the title says. Those are not minutemen in the videos, those are local residents at demonstrations.
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Old 07-05-2009, 06:44 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,823 posts, read 30,101,014 times
Reputation: 17698
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil leftist dogma View Post
There are also a lot of very well-known racists. Case and point, Glenn Spencer.

Border security is not an excuse to degrade a culture of people. That is racist. Hispanics are a race of people, just like the Celts are a race of people and the Jews are a race of people. Racism doesn't just refer to skin colour, it refers to discrimination and dismissal of people based on their culture.

A lot of Minutemen seem to be racist. That, to me, is indicative that the Minutemen are used by racists to use patriotism as a shroud. People regularly invoke patriotism to justify xenophobic or racist behavior- Christian Knights or KKK or what-have-you. It is also vigilantism, which looks good in comic books but not so much in real life. Invoke the national guard, write to your governor and have him declare a state of emergency... do whatever. But have trained soldiers out patrolling the desert. Not a bunch of gun-toting self-proclaimed patriots. It promotes racism.

I consider them almost as bad, if not as bad, as MEChA.
You bring up some good points and I have one too. Border security or the lack of should not mean that millions of Americans should be forced into unemployment, lose their houses or financially raising millions of children of Illegal Aliens like we are today. Most Americans don't use illegals as a labor source nor do they want to pay taxes to support them. And the last thing any American wants to do is see jobs paying 3 bucks and hour because an Illegal will do it for that wage.
As an American of Indian heritage I may not like the racism or hate that Illegals receive but after living among them I do understand how it started. It doesn't make it right but I now understand why. There are millions of Americans being displaced by people coming here illegally and in many Cities they are changing the landscape entirely.
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Old 07-05-2009, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Travelling
122 posts, read 132,007 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
You bring up some good points and I have one too. Border security or the lack of should not mean that millions of Americans should be forced into unemployment, lose their houses or financially raising millions of children of Illegal Aliens like we are today. Most Americans don't use illegals as a labor source nor do they want to pay taxes to support them. And the last thing any American wants to do is see jobs paying 3 bucks and hour because an Illegal will do it for that wage.
As an American of Indian heritage I may not like the racism or hate that Illegals receive but after living among them I do understand how it started. It doesn't make it right but I now understand why. There are millions of Americans being displaced by people coming here illegally and in many Cities they are changing the landscape entirely.
Corporate greed which results in outsourcing of jobs is a big factor of unemployment that people frequently overlook. It's also a lot more heinous because the people who are taking the jobs away from Americans are a) Americans and b) Ridiculously wealthy. Not only that, but those jobs are probably better (both pay-wise and condition-wise) than what most illegal aliens are taking.

The economic troubles here are caused by shady lenders, careless credit spending, outsourcing, overextension of assets during the booms (such as the oil boom, dot com boom, housing boom), and illegal aliens. There isn't any one issue, and I think that while we should be concerned about illegal immigration and curb it as much as possible, we shouldn't let it become such an angry topic that after we do as much as we can to fix it we don't realize that there are still a lot of other pressing matters we have to address. We should also take care not to let it erode our national character- when the illegal aliens are dealt with, we still are going to need that to keep on course.
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Old 07-05-2009, 08:43 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,823 posts, read 30,101,014 times
Reputation: 17698
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil leftist dogma View Post
Corporate greed which results in outsourcing of jobs is a big factor of unemployment that people frequently overlook. It's also a lot more heinous because the people who are taking the jobs away from Americans are a) Americans and b) Ridiculously wealthy. Not only that, but those jobs are probably better (both pay-wise and condition-wise) than what most illegal aliens are taking.

The economic troubles here are caused by shady lenders, careless credit spending, outsourcing, overextension of assets during the booms (such as the oil boom, dot com boom, housing boom), and illegal aliens. There isn't any one issue, and I think that while we should be concerned about illegal immigration and curb it as much as possible, we shouldn't let it become such an angry topic that after we do as much as we can to fix it we don't realize that there are still a lot of other pressing matters we have to address. We should also take care not to let it erode our national character- when the illegal aliens are dealt with, we still are going to need that to keep on course.
More good points and here in CA Unions and taxes have driven out just as many jobs as Illegals have taken by undercutting wages. Illegals are not "the" problem but they are a large part of the problem and the issue can't be hidden beneath other layers. Tax payers deserve the truth and Politicians worried only about votes are making the wrong turns on all the issues. Example, 5 million Illegal Aliens bought homes by lying on forms about incomes and other areas of the form. Five million of them. That is HUGE no matter how you look at it. It was greed on both the lender and the borrower. The only victim in this is the sucker (me and you) that have to bail them out.
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