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Old 02-28-2008, 09:50 PM
 
402 posts, read 923,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
As a blanket statement, this is false. Take your own advice and realize that economics is more complicated than you make it. Supply and demand set price, not cost of production, especially cost of labor. In manufacturing, labor is generally way down the scale in associated costs. Raw materials cost far more than labor.

What amazes me about certain liberals (not necessarily referring to you); on the issue of raising the minimum wage, liberals will point to studies showing it has no impact on inflation, yet regarding illegal immigration, inflation suddenly becomes a concern.
Yes, I said that I can't explain all the complications in regards to business. However, you are talking about manufacturing I was talking more about service oriented businesses (hotel and restrauants) that hire illegal immigrants. In construction cost of labor is much higher than manufacturing... typically manufactoring has machines that help build the products.

 
Old 02-28-2008, 09:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
A) Walmart is not a/the problem - they carry the same products many, many, many other national retailers carry

Case closed
Yes, they do carry many products that other retailers carry. What you don't know is that Wal-Mart is a powerhouse because of "HOW MUCH" they carry....for example a companies business may be 50% of their gross revenue. Listen I have worked in SCM with many product drivin companies and this was a real issue for them.

And in regards to 30%...I am using that as an example. I mean it's simple..in that if the cost of doing business goes up then it will go up for the consumer as well.
 
Old 02-28-2008, 10:02 PM
 
402 posts, read 923,854 times
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Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
You took the Lords name in vain. Profanity
Live and let live
 
Old 02-28-2008, 10:09 PM
 
402 posts, read 923,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc0127 View Post
You're right, Walmart isn't a problem. Big retail chains will always exist. Supply and demand is what determines the prices in our economy. Illegal immigration doesn't have a whole lot to do with that. Although it effects wages sometimes, it usually only effects those who do the worst jobs with the weakest unions. If those Americans don't want to get the raw end of a deal, they're equally as much to blame as the employers and the immigrants. They shouldn't make themselves so vulnerable. That means either go to college or work your ass off, prove your work ethic and get a half-way decent job. Most blue-collared whites do this, even though the illegal immigrants give them what they'd consider ''unnecessary competition.'' However, inner-city blacks are really screwed.

If you have a criminal record and no high-school degree, no one will want to hire you. Every company has all that hard data on an American citizen. Even if that illegal immigrant matches that same criteria, no one will ever know because research isn't done on them and these companies know they can get more out of the illegals for a lower wage. We all know employers base on stereotype too. And in the blue-collared field, they hate when people whine. They like to get the most out of their employees for the lowest price. It might sound unpatriotic, but it's smart economically. To them and most, money means more than pride.

And I agree, we don't need illegal immigrants. I agree in every way. However, this goes much deeper than what guy in the city is getting the construction work in 2008. The government would tell you the same thing, but I hope you don't believe that. They want these illegal immigrants because they know their children are American as birth. They're willing to tough out this generation just like a MLB baseball team is willing to be patient with a minor league prospect. This is their ticket to a larger population - which they believe is the answer for the continuance of being a superpower.

All of us Americans will learn the hard way that even if we have the same or more international power, we'll use up all our resources and our economy will largely continue to fall behind the rest of the world. I don't know why people don't get so angered at the possibility of having 428 million people in 2050, when it's obvious that we can't even take care of many of the 303.5 million citizens we have now.

I'm right there with you that illegal immigration isn't healthy though. My reasoning is much different than the typical American who's answer is as simple as thinking it's ''just wrong.'' Even the government would agree with that statement for the day, but not the long run. And if there is one group that would disagree with that statement, it's the Mexican government - because they love dumping them on us. It stabilizes their economy and prevents a continually overwhelming population growth. There is just too many corrupt political components that go into all this.
I agree that we should stop illegal immigrants in this country. But it is just not Supply and Demand that determine our economy. Maybe this was just a blank statement, but you left out several other critical factors such as cost of doing business and competition.
 
Old 02-28-2008, 10:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc0127 View Post
Even if we had a constitutional ammendment that said this, would this really matter? Does every country in this world who has a document similar to the Constitution enstate this? It's just not necessary. It would be done more so to giving immigrants (both legal and illegal) an unnecessary smack in the face, than it would to protect the English language as the official language of our country. And even if that weren't entirely true, the liberal media would powefully push that insinuation - so I really doubt we'll see much change.

I don't care what this city in Texas says though. Legal documents are still probably in English. It doesn't mean there isn't a bilingual taste, but there is no threat to English not being the primary language of our country. It's not even because people like the language, but rather they could never learn another one. Plus, the whole world is pushing towards speaking English more. How often is it that English is revoked from the status?
Agree!!!................
 
Old 02-29-2008, 12:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYLifes2shrt View Post
Yes, I said that I can't explain all the complications in regards to business. However, you are talking about manufacturing I was talking more about service oriented businesses (hotel and restrauants) that hire illegal immigrants. In construction cost of labor is much higher than manufacturing... typically manufactoring has machines that help build the products.
I used manufacturing as an example. It doesn't matter. In any industry, supply and demand set price, not cost of production.

You do realize that housing components are produced with machinery? Wood, wiring, appliances, flooring, roofing, siding, windows, plumbing, nails, screws, etc., etc. All produced with machines.

Illegals work in manufacturing.
 
Old 02-29-2008, 12:23 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,098,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYLifes2shrt View Post
I mean it's simple..in that if the cost of doing business goes up then it will go up for the consumer as well.
For the last time, NO, IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE!

Please take an introductory economics class before spewing fallacious claims.

Example. You and I each own a fast food restaurant. Our products are comparable. Everything else about the restaurants is equal. We each sell hamburgers for $2 apiece. Your employees demand and receive a 25% wage hike. Now, tell me what will happen when you raise the price of a hamburger to $2.50?
 
Old 02-29-2008, 12:27 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,098,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYLifes2shrt View Post
I agree that we should stop illegal immigrants in this country. But it is just not Supply and Demand that determine our economy. Maybe this was just a blank statement, but you left out several other critical factors such as cost of doing business and competition.
Supply and demand SET PRICE. SET PRICE. Say it over and over until it sinks in.

Of course there are other factors that "determine our economy," whatever that means. That wasn't your original claim, however. Your original claim was that cost of production sets price. It doesn't.
 
Old 02-29-2008, 12:47 PM
 
402 posts, read 923,854 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
I used manufacturing as an example. It doesn't matter. In any industry, supply and demand set price, not cost of production.

You do realize that housing components are produced with machinery? Wood, wiring, appliances, flooring, roofing, siding, windows, plumbing, nails, screws, etc., etc. All produced with machines.

Illegals work in manufacturing.
Okay, I won't do the whole symantics and have to get into too much detail. Cost of labor in construction...(depending on the type of construction)...electrical, plumbing, highway, sheetrock, general contractor, commercial, residential....cost of labor can range from 20 to 50% of the total cost of completing a job (generally COL is 30%). I know this because I use to set-up and help manage Job Costing for construction companies. Have you ever been in management of construction?

Suppy and demand is so general (and in general you are right)...of course they consider cost of doing business and competition and if cost of doing business goes up then so will the prices...I have sat with many C level execs...I have delt with Suppy Chain Management of large companies like Toyota, NEC America and etc. and they said that based on their line of business (don't want to get into detail here) to grow and earn revenue that manufacturing overseas helps them grow revenue and keep the prices down so that consumers will purchase the products. Competition to earn a profit /grow revenue on a yearly for these companies is "fierce". Almost ugly.

Most bigger companies in the US...manufacutring is being completed oversease...China, Korea....we are talking about illegals and when I was making the point I was talking about industries in the US (using some examples) that are hiring "them". You know the larger companies, including mid-size construction do not just hire of the street...they "know" that they are hiring illegal immigrants at times, but they have SS#'s and ID...most won't blatantly hire pple w/o the right ppr work.
 
Old 02-29-2008, 12:52 PM
 
402 posts, read 923,854 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
Supply and demand SET PRICE. SET PRICE. Say it over and over until it sinks in.

Of course there are other factors that "determine our economy," whatever that means. That wasn't your original claim, however. Your original claim was that cost of production sets price. It doesn't.
Well, if I said that "only" cost of production sets price then I was wrong...I should have been more clear. I meant cost of doing business (another blanket statement) is one of the determining factors in setting price.
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