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Old 07-15-2016, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Caverns measureless to man...
6,704 posts, read 4,165,907 times
Reputation: 14935

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ View Post
Again there those who intend to diminish the Constitution and the laws on the books. Just to gain or remain in this Great Country.


It is actually very cut and dry and Liberals want open borders and have Globalization, One world Gov.
What the hell does that have to do with anything we're talking about? The law is the law, the way it's written is the way it's written. If you don't like it, call your congressman and urge him to write legislation that adheres more closely with the apparent original intent of the Senator who drafted the amendment. If he does introduce that bill, and it's passed, and signed into law, then that will be the new law. Until then, this is the law, because this is the way this one is written.

You guys are the ones blatantly trying to undermine the law and the Constitution because it doesn't say what you want it to say. Why do conservatives hate the Constitution so much?
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Old 07-16-2016, 05:11 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 6,919,156 times
Reputation: 13779
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Yet the person that made the 14th amendment stated....
Howard specifically wrote that the 14th Amendment:
will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.
Nobody "made" any amendment. Somebody, often a committee, drafted individual amendments, but they had to be passed by Congress and then passed again by the requisite number of state legislatures.

Furthermore, you need to read your own quote for comprehension, not just focus on what you think supports your view since you conveniently ignore the part of the your quote which clearly states that the children of diplomatic personnel are not covered by the Fourteenth Amendment, but all other groups of people were covered! Sorry, dude, but neither 19th century freedmen nor 21st century undocumented immigrants are diplomatic personnel.

The sole purpose of the Fourteenth Amendment was to make a large group of people -- approximately 4 million people -- who were living in the US and deemed ineligible for citizenship because of the Dredd Scott decision into citizens simply because they were born in the US.
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Old 07-16-2016, 05:44 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert_The_Crocodile View Post
What the hell does that have to do with anything we're talking about? The law is the law, the way it's written is the way it's written. If you don't like it, call your congressman and urge him to write legislation that adheres more closely with the apparent original intent of the Senator who drafted the amendment. If he does introduce that bill, and it's passed, and signed into law, then that will be the new law. Until then, this is the law, because this is the way this one is written.

You guys are the ones blatantly trying to undermine the law and the Constitution because it doesn't say what you want it to say. Why do conservatives hate the Constitution so much?

This has nothing to do with party affiliation If you want to go that route progressives want to deny us our 2nd Amendment rights but that's another topic.


What is written is "and" subject to the jurisdiction thereof. "And" is the qualifier for birthright citizenship. Parents here illegally are not subject to our full jurisdiction.
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Old 07-16-2016, 06:58 AM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,194,565 times
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Do you think BOTH parents must be American Citizens? Did you ever consider that one parent could be a citizen and other isn't? I saw this when I worked in Florida schools, especially with Mothers who were citizens. Their American born children should not be citizens because Daddy wasn't a citizen?

What about the opposite situation where Daddy is the citizen and Mommy isn't? Prove who's the American citizen Father? Hello, Maury!

Are you only talking about illegals or foreigners here on Visas too. Think about American men who marry (or not) a woman here on a Visa and have children? Do you think these children born on American soil should not be citizens? Oh, no, maybe the cunning foreign woman just married an American man to have American children?????? Hint. It's not just illegal Mexicans crossing the border. Foreign men and women fly to the US from other countries also.

Just playing a bit of Devils Advocate here to see how far some would take this.
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Old 07-16-2016, 08:22 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Do you think BOTH parents must be American Citizens? Did you ever consider that one parent could be a citizen and other isn't? I saw this when I worked in Florida schools, especially with Mothers who were citizens. Their American born children should not be citizens because Daddy wasn't a citizen?

What about the opposite situation where Daddy is the citizen and Mommy isn't? Prove who's the American citizen Father? Hello, Maury!

Are you only talking about illegals or foreigners here on Visas too. Think about American men who marry (or not) a woman here on a Visa and have children? Do you think these children born on American soil should not be citizens? Oh, no, maybe the cunning foreign woman just married an American man to have American children?????? Hint. It's not just illegal Mexicans crossing the border. Foreign men and women fly to the US from other countries also.

Just playing a bit of Devils Advocate here to see how far some would take this.

IMO, only legal permanent citizens and or one citizen spouse should entitle their children to be birthright citizens.


No one has said that only Mexicans are crossing our border illegally. However, most illegals are border crossers and many are from south of Mexico also. Only 40% of illegals are visa over stayers. 60% never came legally in the first place.
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Old 07-16-2016, 10:52 AM
 
8,063 posts, read 3,621,800 times
Reputation: 2449
Lightbulb My point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert_The_Crocodile View Post
What the hell does that have to do with anything we're talking about? The law is the law, the way it's written is the way it's written. If you don't like it, call your congressman and urge him to write legislation that adheres more closely with the apparent original intent of the Senator who drafted the amendment. If he does introduce that bill, and it's passed, and signed into law, then that will be the new law. Until then, this is the law, because this is the way this one is written.

You guys are the ones blatantly trying to undermine the law and the Constitution because it doesn't say what you want it to say. Why do conservatives hate the Constitution so much?
The 14th amendment is cut and dry and the definition if Citizenship is clear(One Parent is required to be American)


Has one considered there is outside forces trying to dissolve the US as we know it.???


EU and the Globalization Movement! They would love to see the US blend in. We have never just "Blend in and the USA has always charted its own course. Americans are independent and that is why there is resentment.


This is a political hot bed with every Illegal Immigrant looking for an angle to stay in the US. These same Illegal's will go any measure in remaining in the US. The sad thing is other counties policies are much more restrictive. The penalties are enforced. Look at Mexico's Policies on this matter.
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Old 07-16-2016, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Pacific Beach/San Diego
3,463 posts, read 2,273,895 times
Reputation: 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by strad View Post
All people in the United States are subject to the jurisdiction of the US except for certain foreign diplomats (that whole diplomatic immunity thing that gets abused in so many Hollywood action movies). Even illegal aliens have to abide by US laws and when they break them they go to US prisons and possibly deported after they have served their sentence.

The Supreme Court solidified this interpretation of that statement back in 1898. Congress has had 118 years to amend that amendment if they disagreed with that interpretation.
Once again the Constitution Absolutists become less absolute when the Constitution doesn't say what they want it to say.
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Old 07-16-2016, 11:35 AM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,123,070 times
Reputation: 6744
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytrump View Post
All those poor military kids!!! OMG dad died in war--- and you are not welcomed in the US - as you were born OS--GASP better get rid or Cruz FAST!
buddy get over it- life must change- laws must change- and somethings just need tweaking - if anyone tries to take my voting card out of my hand--they will be crying momma
How quickly some forget the left tried it on McCain......coming from the party of "not so perfect."


Amazing, how quick the left is willing to support "anchor babies" soon to be equal to refugee babies, while thinking Hillary will be great for the future of their grandchildren. Anchor babies end up having babies and these people populate much faster than "established" Americans. I am sure those "anchor/refugee babies" will be there to lift up your grandchildren and their children when your precious babies become the minority......... Giving it to those that will rule them with no assimilation, robbing your own of a future in the America you prospered from.


The legacy of the left.......All of you are building this!
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Old 07-16-2016, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Caverns measureless to man...
6,704 posts, read 4,165,907 times
Reputation: 14935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
This has nothing to do with party affiliation If you want to go that route progressives want to deny us our 2nd Amendment rights but that's another topic.


What is written is "and" subject to the jurisdiction thereof. "And" is the qualifier for birthright citizenship. Parents here illegally are not subject to our full jurisdiction.
That's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it, but the courts have consistently disagreed. And Congress has never considered it important enough to pass legislation clarifying the definition of the term. So under our system of government, that is just the law of the land, and that's that. If Congress considers it important enough to write new legislation defining the term, then there will be a new law, but until then this is the way it is. No matter how many people stand up and shout, "but that's not what it's supposed to mean."



Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ View Post
The 14th amendment is cut and dry and the definition if Citizenship is clear(One Parent is required to be American)
Again, the courts have ruled otherwise every single time - all the way up to the Supreme Court. So if you're asserting that as a statement of fact, you're just plain wrong. Sorry, but it is what it is.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ View Post
Has one considered there is outside forces trying to dissolve the US as we know it.???
Many have considered it, and I've certainly given it some thought.

But not much, because I think the idea is ridiculous. It's tin-foil hat, "we didn't really land on the moon," birther/truther nonsense.

Unfortunately, though, the truth is even more frightening. The United States that we know and love (or in my case, used to love) are not being destroyed or dissolved by outside forces - they are being destroyed by internal forces. The wealthy and our elected representatives are working together to destroy our way of life, and they are not doing it on behalf of any foreign interests - they are doing it purely in their own interests.

What do wealthy men and men of power want more than anything else? More wealth and more power. The wealthy see globalization as the way to increase their wealth and their control over government, and the elected officials of our government see the wealthy's obsession with globalization as the way to increase their own power - by representing the interests of the wealthy and advancing the agenda of globalization through government authority. The Asians and Europeans are not destroying our country; the people who own and govern our country are literally selling it to them right out from under us.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ View Post
EU and the Globalization Movement! They would love to see the US blend in. We have never just "Blend in and the USA has always charted its own course. Americans are independent and that is why there is resentment.
I don't think they care whether we blend in, so much as they just want us to do business with them on their terms. Which our business and political leaders are all too willing to do. Don't blame foreigners for taking unfair advantage of us - blame our own business and political leaders for allying themselves with them.
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Old 07-16-2016, 02:29 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert_The_Crocodile View Post
That's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it, but the courts have consistently disagreed. And Congress has never considered it important enough to pass legislation clarifying the definition of the term. So under our system of government, that is just the law of the land, and that's that. If Congress considers it important enough to write new legislation defining the term, then there will be a new law, but until then this is the way it is. No matter how many people stand up and shout, "but that's not what it's supposed to mean."





Again, the courts have ruled otherwise every single time - all the way up to the Supreme Court. So if you're asserting that as a statement of fact, you're just plain wrong. Sorry, but it is what it is.





Many have considered it, and I've certainly given it some thought.

But not much, because I think the idea is ridiculous. It's tin-foil hat, "we didn't really land on the moon," birther/truther nonsense.

Unfortunately, though, the truth is even more frightening. The United States that we know and love (or in my case, used to love) are not being destroyed or dissolved by outside forces - they are being destroyed by internal forces. The wealthy and our elected representatives are working together to destroy our way of life, and they are not doing it on behalf of any foreign interests - they are doing it purely in their own interests.

What do wealthy men and men of power want more than anything else? More wealth and more power. The wealthy see globalization as the way to increase their wealth and their control over government, and the elected officials of our government see the wealthy's obsession with globalization as the way to increase their own power - by representing the interests of the wealthy and advancing the agenda of globalization through government authority. The Asians and Europeans are not destroying our country; the people who own and govern our country are literally selling it to them right out from under us.




I don't think they care whether we blend in, so much as they just want us to do business with them on their terms. Which our business and political leaders are all too willing to do. Don't blame foreigners for taking unfair advantage of us - blame our own business and political leaders for allying themselves with them.

Where and when did SCOTUS "officially" determine by the Constitution that children born from illegal aliens are birthright citizens? The two cases you presented were not about that. The GOP has presented a few bills to change that PC policy but of course the Democrats will have nothing to do with it. Surprise, surprise.


Written words in the Constitution are not tin foil hat theory.
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