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Old 02-20-2008, 08:35 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,159,589 times
Reputation: 138

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Palpatein View Post
To ArizonaBear:

Actually the fertility rate has reduced in Mexico, true. However that fertility rate is sky high here in the US. I don't have stats at the moment. Also, if you do some networking, you'll hear people report from their areas ALL OVER THE USA that illegals are averaging 4 kids minimum - AT LEAST!

My area is overrun and the three towns near where I live are filling up with them. You see those women everywhere, pregnant with at least 4 kids. On average you see about 5 kids. That's the same reports from all over the country. They're hellbent on reconquest. There's been plenty of "baby boom" stories and reports where most major hospitals are reporting 40-50% of the babies there probably belong to illegals.

As for state laws, so Arizona got rid of most of their illegals. Big deal. Those illegals will just move to another US state. And once Arizona goes through a couple of election cycles, another politician will invite them all back. It's just a matter of time. There's a lot of turncoats here in America. Plus ... you have to factor in what the Presidential candidates will do for this situation.

One more thing ... many illegals are flooding in from other latin America (south America, central American) countries which are jam packed with tens of millions of uneducated, poor, desperate people ready to flood into America.
Come back when you have some stats. Hispanic birth rates in America are parallel to that of Whites.

 
Old 02-20-2008, 09:46 PM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,735,161 times
Reputation: 223
I wonder how we white anglo saxon Americans would feel if one day we were the minority? We could not live except in certain areas with our own kind. We always had to prove ourselves to fit into where society thinks we belong. Where we are not judged for the individual we are, but how the majority see's us. I don't think that shoe on the other foot would be all that comfortable.
 
Old 02-20-2008, 09:48 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,159,589 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyone View Post
I wonder how we white anglo saxon Americans would feel if one day we were the minority? We could not live except in certain areas with our own kind. We always had to prove ourselves to fit into where society thinks we belong. Where we are not judged for the individual we are, but how the majority see's us. I don't think that shoe on the other foot would be all that comfortable.
What about Hispanics who consider themselves as White? What about the Americans who are Half White and Half Hispanic?
 
Old 02-20-2008, 09:51 PM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,735,161 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
What about Hispanics who consider themselves as White? What about the Americans who are Half White and Half Hispanic?
I'm just saying that I feel we should treat people as we would like to be treated, no more no less. I was not thinking of only Hispanics, but all races and all religions.

Last edited by sassyone; 02-20-2008 at 10:05 PM.. Reason: to add comment
 
Old 02-20-2008, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Metropolis
1,148 posts, read 3,256,778 times
Reputation: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
Come back when you have some stats. Hispanic birth rates in America are parallel to that of Whites.
Absolutely Incorrect.

Check CDC vital statistics
General Fertility Rate: the average number of children a woman has in her lifetime
White: 1.9
Asian: 1.9
Black: 2.1
Hispanic: 2.8
-----Mexican: 3.1
-----Puerto Rican: 2.0
-----Cuban: 1.7
-----Other Latin: 2.8
 
Old 02-20-2008, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,174,996 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyone View Post
I wonder how we white anglo saxon Americans would feel if one day we were the minority? We could not live except in certain areas with our own kind. We always had to prove ourselves to fit into where society thinks we belong. Where we are not judged for the individual we are, but how the majority see's us. I don't think that shoe on the other foot would be all that comfortable.
You know, I'm white. I'm also Portuguese, which should rightfully be considered Hispanic, since Portugal came from Spain and shares the bloodline. Lotsa wars back in the day made the Portuguese not want to be considered Hispanic though, so I don't get any sympathy today. About half of my family is of Mexican descent.

Funny thing is, when I was growing up in the 60's and early 70's in California, I didn't have a problem with Mexicans, I even took part in some of the marches for Cesar Chavez's United Farm Workers. We were marching and boycotting the growers for better wages and working conditions in the fields. A lot of those growers tried to break the strikes and boycotts by bringing in illegal Mexican labor to undercut the UFW. Cesar Chavez used to call the INS on them, because he KNEW the problems that illegal labor would cause.

My point is this. Most of the anger today directed at Hispanics in general and Mexicans in particular was non-existent 40 years ago. It had been almost 20 years since Operation *******, which deported about 1.5 million Mexicans, and most 'Anglos' didn't have a problem with Mexican-AMERICANS. The amnesty of 1986 seemed to signal to the Mexican population at large that America's border was nothing more than a line on the map, and that whoever got across it could count on getting amnesty, too. What was estimated to be 1.2 million became over 3 million in short order, and today the number is guesstimated to be as many as 40 million illegals in country.

That's enough to **** ANYBODY off...
 
Old 02-20-2008, 10:55 PM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,735,161 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
You know, I'm white. I'm also Portuguese, which should rightfully be considered Hispanic, since Portugal came from Spain and shares the bloodline. Lotsa wars back in the day made the Portuguese not want to be considered Hispanic though, so I don't get any sympathy today. About half of my family is of Mexican descent.

Funny thing is, when I was growing up in the 60's and early 70's in California, I didn't have a problem with Mexicans, I even took part in some of the marches for Cesar Chavez's United Farm Workers. We were marching and boycotting the growers for better wages and working conditions in the fields. A lot of those growers tried to break the strikes and boycotts by bringing in illegal Mexican labor to undercut the UFW. Cesar Chavez used to call the INS on them, because he KNEW the problems that illegal labor would cause.

My point is this. Most of the anger today directed at Hispanics in general and Mexicans in particular was non-existent 40 years ago. It had been almost 20 years since Operation *******, which deported about 1.5 million Mexicans, and most 'Anglos' didn't have a problem with Mexican-AMERICANS. The amnesty of 1986 seemed to signal to the Mexican population at large that America's border was nothing more than a line on the map, and that whoever got across it could count on getting amnesty, too. What was estimated to be 1.2 million became over 3 million in short order, and today the number is guesstimated to be as many as 40 million illegals in country.

That's enough to **** ANYBODY off...
I appreciate your post
 
Old 02-20-2008, 11:25 PM
 
418 posts, read 264,827 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I have to hand it to you for your "optimism". I've worked in the Water Industry here in California for years, and while we do have some EXTREMELY valuable properties, I've spent a lot of time in the "not-so-expensive" areas too, and I can ASSURE you there are places in California that rival El Salvador in poverty--many of them in SIGHT of the gated communities. There are rural 'slums' in the San Joaquin Valley that would SHOCK the folks passing by on the nearby freeway, who have no IDEA of their existence.

I've known people living in ship-containers, in tents under the trees, and in discarded camper shells...and paying RENT for the privilege. I've seen whole groups of guys who don't speak Spanish (they're Nahuatls) who are REALLY at the mercy of the ranchers and growers...and even get ripped off by their labor brokers. And I've known many families sub-letting garages and backyard playhouses. It's NOT a good situation, and it's going to take some real 'effort' to get these folks into the 'expensive California lifestyle' you talk about.

Not trying to discount your great posts...but realize that not ALL of California is 'upscale'...and parts of it aren't even 'first world'. Agriculture and nursery labor is a 'hard row to hoe', and I don't know if you'll EVER straighten the situation out...I sure don't have any answers.
You're right, there are impoverished rural sections. Because they're considered rural obviously indicates that they lack high population density. That means they're statistically insignificant to not just the immigrant population of California, but California's population in millions as a whole.

People who live in tents under trees are not the people who mean anything when it comes to Clinton/Obama fighting McCain for the 55 appropriated electoral college votes. I do agree that there will be segments of populations everywhere that won't necessarily assimilate - but this is usually only especially true in places that aren't high in population density, college education or affluence. Many rural parts of California are not on the same par with southern California. Similarly, I'm sure an Italian immigrant and their children who lived in upstate New York could have gotten away with continuing to do the same labor job going into the modern era rather than someone living in New York City.

Those people are not representative of immigrants in California as a whole, nor this country. They aren't encouraged to joining the real world, because they aren't taught their lives suck. Believe me though, when they're children are going K-12 school - how many would want to live like them? California has good education. In this modern era, people take more off of what society gives them, rather than their parents. Especially if there parents were poor. The only exception to this is inner-city blacks, who only continue to get worse. It's not because they're pushing backwards, but rather because everyone else is advancing, while they're idle. Most of the children of these immigrants (which I guarantee almost every immigrant there has) will polarize from the lifestyle of their parents. There will be exceptions, but those impoverished people you describe will naturally just fade.

The only way California could assimilate all is if they took the same approach a state like New Jersey or Connecticut took. For middle-class people, that's obviously true. But there are still underdeveloped places that have too many people (i.e. parts of Florida), that suffer with undependable real-estate markets, crappy jobs with no protection and/or unions, ect. California is a huge start, so it's understandable why they couldn't be like New Jersey - but that's why controlling the amount of immigrants who live there should be done.

Those who you describe are not living the American dream and are endangering their children from it too, so it makes no sense to me why they'd even want to come to this country to begin with. Life would have been better where they lived, especially considering they'd actually still be able to see there families. I don't have a great answer either, because most scenarios I'd post would be catch 22's. Time will just work out these problems. The best thing they could do is limit the amount of people living there and improve the current living conditions of those who you described - whether they be minimal or meaningful to the population.
 
Old 02-20-2008, 11:35 PM
 
418 posts, read 264,827 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by sun queen View Post
I have read some really funny posts in this thread, but I don't know what 2050 will look like and what ethnicity will be the majority in America. I don't think it will be Hispanics though. Hopefully America will rise above the issues of color and be a just society committed to equality for all of Her citizens no matter their heritage. I think it is important to keep in mind that being the majority does not mean having the most power or ruling over the minority. Look at Mexico and other Latino Countries/Islands like Cuba for example. Also, look at the minority rule of South Africa or any African country for that matter. And take a look at the Middle East too. In many of these nations the majority of the people suffer at the hands of the minority in power. Do u think America is any different today or will be any different in 2050? I think we have enough to focus our attention on presently without adding the fear of Hispanic population growth. Americans need to resolve illegal immigration and the the financial and social burdens that have come along with it. If we can accomplish this any time soon the possibilities of 2050 are looking somewhat better.
You're right. I don't know why people have these stupid anxieties. If they choose to though, this really isn't that complicated of a topic. To myself, it's obvious that Latin American immigrant will continue (and especially Mexican), but all it will do is add to the future middle-class population of our country. I don't think it's smart to add to your population at the enormous rate we do, because we will destroy all our resources. Most people are so angry with immigrants, but they should be more upset with their politicians. They should be upset at the fact that they allow so many legal and illegal immigrants are treated so well in this country, while so many American born citizens continue to get treated like crap (and guess who especially).

So it really doesn't matter how we look or what ever happens. There culture will die. For anyone to believe that the Hispanic race, ethnicity or culture exists or is unified in a fake world is out of their mind. Hypothetically, if any such thing as ''Hispanic'' existed - it would only apply to immigrants and their children. No one else. Regardless of race, if you are second generation+ Latin American descended, regardless of race - you live like a white American economically and socially - so you pretty much are a white American, especially if you're white.

The term is there to help immigrants get to middle-class stature quicker and to keep blacks down. It's that simple. I think people should be more angered that their government does this crafty stuff behind their back and doesn't let them know any of it, simply because they believe their citizens are too naive and stupid (even if they're right). This is only part of it, but this is a big reason why I question if our country is even worth fighting for sometimes. The more months and years go on, the less proud I am to be a citizen of this country. Not so much because other countries are just getting better while we stay idle or go backwards, but because of how annoying it could be to live in a country with such vulnerable idiots who allow themselves to be taken advantage at every second of the day.

American won't be different in 2050, other than the fact of global warming, Europe and Canada being even better than us and a peak of the world population. From there, I wouldn't expect the fertility rate to rise. We'll be lucky if we even have a world in 2050 lol
 
Old 02-20-2008, 11:38 PM
 
418 posts, read 264,827 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Most of these guys don't 'work', they're college students or similar 'groupies'...many of them US-born.
Those Aztlan type groups with college students or weirdos need a reason to feel special. It's not just them though. For some reason, a lot of those weird groups that are associated with hate and politics like white nationalists and anarchists are really popular in California. Probably more than anywhere else. Is there something in your guys food? lol j/p
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