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Old 02-22-2008, 12:20 PM
 
418 posts, read 264,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CATOGAMO View Post
Well, you have a point there, language is very important...BUT some people is mutilating english language because of their ethnic, here we are back to the main issue. About the human nature of joining thier "own people" is confirming the stereotype mentality again, why cant just black, chinesse, hispanic and caucasian have fun together. That is my point we need to stop supporting ethnic associations, they only feed more fear to do the right thing. I am personally a mix of cultures, european and hispanic, and I have great friends almost in "every group" and is too much fun. God bless America, we can do it.
Exactly. If all groups don't see themselves as group (i.e. white, Asian) ; than we could live in a better society. It'd allow us to all be individual people. Although it's not perfect, they got a lot more of that in the rest of the modern world. Wouldn't it be nice to not see people be like ''oh that Chinese kid.'' If we are to judge upon collective traits we do have, I believe it should be things we actually have physical control over. The way we look isn't, but too many people are focused on not breaking out of that old world way of thinking. I think we're getting there - but it's just taking us a lot longer than it has to.

 
Old 02-22-2008, 12:31 PM
 
418 posts, read 264,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decafdave View Post
I didn't. But it is a slow process that could use speeding up, for the sake of the immigrants and those of us who've been here a while.
Somewhat, true - but that really depends on what part of the country you live in. In New Jersey where I live, if you don't assimilate - you're screwed. This state is overwhelmingly expensive. Education is necessary. A double-income is often necessary, regardless of education level. Otherwise, you'll live like crap and this state - which primarily suburban, just won't hold your hand along the way.

In a cheap part of New Mexico, you could get away with more. As long as you work and make half-way decent pay, your assimilation really depends on how much you're connecting with the rest of society. Inevitably, it happens to the children - but for those parents, it really depends on how open they are to socializing. Some do it, some don't. No one could really force anything upon any immigrant - but that's something they'll have to do for themselves.

For the most part though, immigrants (and especially legal immigrants - the overwhelmingly major of immigrants) do assimilate just fine and at a good pace. I'm not sure where you live though, so you may have a different view on this than I do. If we demanded a higher education level and allowed a smaller number of immigrants, this probably could naturally just solve itself. I blame our government for not just accepting, but preferring unskilled and educated immigrants. That deprives not just the American economy, but especially inner-city African-Americans and puts a bad name on all legal immigrants who are educated.
 
Old 02-22-2008, 12:39 PM
 
418 posts, read 264,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GARUFA View Post
Hi , I don't think that spanish population will never be a majority. Certain nacionality is majority over the other spanish speaking communities (mexico).
I was born in USA , in LA CA , my parents where from Argentina. However, I certainly hope , the US never will be like any of those latin countries. Full of corrupts 'politicians' traficants, some of those countries a run by gansters. GOD keep the US to became one of those countries.
Well, what do you call Bush? lol Similarly, those politicians destroy their countries, even if it's done a different way. At least they don't attack other countries and tell them to live like them. But hey, if they had the money or power we did - they might try. Sadly, America is sure heading in their direction. America will never be as unstable as a corrupt Latin American country with extreme amounts of turmoil. Although our economy is sluggish, we still have far more money and a confident government that functions.

I doubt we'd ever become Colombia or Peru, although we're definitely significantly falling behind countries like France, Spain and Canada. Basically, those corrupt Latin American countries are still okay compared to the world because they still have good literacy, infant mortality rates, currencies and things like that. America is good, but used to be great in the Bill Clinton days. And all the other countries I said are the great ones now. It'd sad that's what it's come down to, but hopefully things will turn around with a new president like Barack Obama.
 
Old 02-22-2008, 12:50 PM
 
418 posts, read 264,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue pekoe View Post
Living in CA, I think I have had a preview of what a Hispanic majority might mean. But, I'd like to hope that the future might be different and that a Hispanic majority won't mean anything other than the fact a majority of patriotic, English-speaking Americans have Latin American ancestry.

But, if CA is any indication of what is to come, and if our country does not move beyond 'ethnic politics,' we may end up with thousands, if not millions, of La Raza types similar to the current mayor of L.A. Our Senate might resemble the CA legislature and reflect the same allegiance to a foreign power and its population over non-Hispanic Americans.

This is not to imply that all Hispanics are members of Mecha or La Raza or subscribe to their ideas. But, even a handful of such individuals in positions of power would not bode well for the rest of us and for the cohesiveness of our society.

The only viable solution is to stop emphasizing ancestry (the past) and to focus on an American identity (the present) while building a sense of community that is not based on some tribal identity (in other words, evolve).
You're right. Until we evolve, we won't be able to delete ethnicity. And from there, we won't advance as individuals. We'll make ourselves needy upon groups that will never give us anything. I think we're really blowing this all out of proportion though. As far as ''Hispanics'' or ''Latinos'' go, there is no such thing as the ethnicity to begin with. The fact that so many of you continue to use it is allowing the continuance of this ignorant damage. Just saying that is indirectly promoting the existence and unity of people of Latin American background - which there isn't.

When American intellectualism begin to increase maybe a few decades from now, hopefully they'll challenge themselves upon the legitimacy of ''Hispanic'' - inevitably making it a invalidated categorization in ''ethnic politics'' you describe. Between that and the political device evaporating - that's why I predict that the term Hispanic will absolve some time in between 2040 and 2050. Very few know about groups like La Raza and few care. I think all of you are thinking too much about the worst care scenario of such a minor portion of the population.

You rarely hear anything about those groups in national politics. You have to be interested in politics to know about that kind of group. All of us writing on here seem to be. Most of the population could care less for any sort of involvement or advanced acknowledgment of politics. Even if there are more people in groups like La Raza that mean more to the Latin American population, don't expect them to be anything more than a group like White Nationalists. Why is what? Not much. Just words. No money equals no power.
 
Old 02-24-2008, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Popeyes
762 posts, read 1,465,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
I keep hearing that Hispanics will eventually become the majority in the US. What do they plan to do when this happens?

Will they make Spanish the official language? If so, what will this accomplish? Do they plan to remake the legal justice system? What would this look like?

I imagine they will vote Hispanics into office, but so what? There already are officials all across the country of many different races and backgrounds, and they still must operate under the same system. Do Hispanics plan to change current institutions?

I don't understand what the significance of being a "racial" majority will hold.

It won't make a difference white people won't let that happen america will still be the same
 
Old 02-24-2008, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 414Milwaukee View Post
It won't make a difference white people won't let that happen america will still be the same
Being that not so terribly long ago; Irish and Italians counted less than 'regular' WASP's......and are now counted as Anglo.........

That same thing will happen to so-called 'Hispanics' as the illegals are chased off allowing those who want to be American assimilate.

Hell: anymore to me at least; a 'WASP' can include folks like Colin Powell, Condi Rice and of course Obama------in the cultural sense.
 
Old 02-24-2008, 05:31 PM
 
220 posts, read 336,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Being that not so terribly long ago; Irish and Italians counted less than 'regular' WASP's......and are now counted as Anglo.........

That same thing will happen to so-called 'Hispanics' as the illegals are chased off allowing those who want to be American assimilate.

Hell: anymore to me at least; a 'WASP' can include folks like Colin Powell, Condi Rice and of course Obama------in the cultural sense.
The Irish & Italian were always considered white but you are correct in implying that they weren't initially accepted into the (at that time) WASP elite.
 
Old 02-24-2008, 05:34 PM
 
418 posts, read 264,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 414Milwaukee View Post
It won't make a difference white people won't let that happen america will still be the same
Okay, that quote didn't make much sense. Not so much the quote - but your definition of ''whiteness'' may not be the same to all of us. Does white people including Spaniard descended slave owning/raping people? Or are the magical minority? Do you not keep in mind that the technicalities of the status quo are not believed nor well understood by everyone? And than those technicalities will change when immigrating either significantly slows down or ends. If already half of ''Hispanics'' consider themselves to be white and the U.S. Census re-classified Hispanic as an ethnicity, not a race and asked people for their race - what is that saying? Is it preparing to protect the whiteness of the future by changing the criteria of whiteness of the status quo under our government?

As I went in detail before, the government wants a larger population. Honestly, I don't know why that'd be a good thing other than a larger military - but that's simply what they want. Most countries in the world as more than happy if they keep a steady population, as long it doesn't drop. Where else is a surplus of a population going to come from? It won't be ''white'' populace of this country having babies - because their fertility rate drops and drops and life gets more expensive. It won't be Asian and African immigrants because they respect U.N. quotas and choose other spots of the world. Europe, Australia, Canada and the West Indies aren't coming - because it's better over their and their fertility rate are low anyway. And Eastern Europe picks several spots as well. Same thing with Middle Easterners, but in the state we're in right now - I doubt you'd see an accelerated interest anyway. Basically, the only place that could supply is Latin America and primarily Mexico.

I'm not sure what you meant by ''not let that happen'' though. Do you mean like literally like a guy standing and pushing someone away? Or the government protecting whiteness through crafty measures? It's obviously not like a bouncer standing his ground - becuase our population continues to grow. It's not even that the American government protects whiteness, but rather more so that they're against anything that could allow blacks to become equally assimilated. America wants an excess of middle-class Christian citizens that can't rag on the past - so obviously no bouncer is here.

With that being said, the American government and media (although they like to make you think the opposite) is heavily in the interests of whites - and basically want all people to live like them economically and socially, except for inner-city blacks. America wants more people and there's no other way to get them. Honesty, if Mexican immigrants didn't come though - it wouldn't seem like Latin American immigration is so overwhelming. ''Illegals'' wouldn't be as common (except for over-stayed visas which is a problem everywhere) and the country's population wouldn't be projected to be 428 million in 2050.

Mexico wants to dump their trash, because America considers it a good meal. And if Mexico hypothetically dumps 30 million immigrants on us over the next 40 years and through nature increase only expands 10 to 15 million - the American middle-class population would expand and Mexico's economy would stabilize. Mexico printed too much money and doesn't even have enough healthy resources for their citizens - primarily especially poor rural ones like the ones we see immigrate to this country. For Mexico, dumping them is great. For America, it's a guessing game.

The thing that all of you should be concerned about is not who will be the ''majority'' of this country in 2050, but rather would a population of 1 and 1/2 our size really be healthy for this country? Especially with our economic problems that will go on for at least a decade and the possibility of universal health care to come about. The media can push your attention elsewhere by throwing stupid questions like - if America is predominantly ''Hispanic'' - what will that mean? Which the media and sources have never projected anyway. And if they did, almost all who live in 2008 probably won't be around to see it.

On the inney, America will be the same. Although possibly not as powerful of a nation economically and our reputation will probably continue to decline. Those reasons wouldn't really be relevant to immigration though. On the outtey, sure, why not? I'm not a baby though. I think all of us no matter what we look like could care less for what our future citizens are to physically appear like - even though it probably wouldn't be much different anyway. Because many Latin Americans are white, extensive mixing would occur and hopefully in the future we could think with our brains - not our eyes.
 
Old 02-24-2008, 05:54 PM
 
418 posts, read 264,697 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Being that not so terribly long ago; Irish and Italians counted less than 'regular' WASP's......and are now counted as Anglo.........

That same thing will happen to so-called 'Hispanics' as the illegals are chased off allowing those who want to be American assimilate.

Hell: anymore to me at least; a 'WASP' can include folks like Colin Powell, Condi Rice and of course Obama------in the cultural sense.
So if you had the last name Franco and were of Italian descent, is the Mexican immigrant going to call them ''Anglo?'' lol What would be the criteria for that term be anyway? I've never heard it before, probably because I've never lived off the east coast time zone. Do you have to be Christian? The same thing used to apply to how people interpret what being ''Caucasian'' meant. I really doubt Italian immigrants would have been included in that a century ago, but nowadays - people have just transformed that into believing it's a different way of saying ''white.''

Even though Irish and Italian immigrants were treated differently from the white populace of their times, they dealt with their situations during different eras. That'd really be especially true for Irish Catholics too (not so much Protestants), who were treated much worse than Italians - even though Irish were obviously less ethnic. I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but they never fought or really had any political involvement with one another - just so no one is confused. For a few maybe, but for the consensus no. The reason why is each of those groups had remained their ethnic title and partial non-assimilation for about two full generations or a half-century. One of Irish Catholics biggest immigrated years was 1848 - around the peak of the potato famine.

If 1850 was their median year, most had lost their ethnic title by the first decade of the twentieth century. Italian immigration started in significant flows around 1890 and ended by that key year 1924. One of their biggest years was 1905, right around when Irish had lost their ethnic title. In New York City for example - that's why many of the white bosses who weren't Jewish were Irish surnamed right around Italian's immigration peak. They had assimilated up to that point and were often the bosses. Often time, people said they didn't treat the Italian immigrants well - but it wasn't as Irish people. It was as white people. Older Italians like my grandmother probably wouldn't tell you that though - because it'd challenge her whiteness and indirectly Americanism. Some could try making that argument now with the Euro-American (or ''white'' or Anglo) populace, but they'd have little argument - because Mexican immigrants have walked on a yellow brick road in this country - especially in the southwest. Obviously though, now it's starting to change.

That's somewhat why I take it irritating when people compare Irish and Italian immigrants - because they didn't live in each others time. Not enough people know history and time periods well enough to prevent this confusion, so it's very easy to blur things.

But yes, you're right. All will assimilate. The only people who probably won't will be inner-city blacks. People may hold onto non-assimilative traits - like say southern culture or being bilingual - if you contained the language, but almost all of American citizens will live similarly. Even if those Mexicans illegally immigrated here, they're children are born-American citizens. And even if they don't bust out of the shell in their first generation (which would be no one else fault but their own considering the opportunities of this era), by the second generation - they'd be no more Mexican than an ''Anglo'' or black guy. Obviously though, some ''weird'' people will have these incredible nightmares of ''La Raza'' living in the most Americanized people who can't speak a drop of Spanish - which really amazes me lol
 
Old 02-24-2008, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Here in Arizona: any non Hispanic White is counted as an Anglo-------including Arabs, North Africans, Iranians as well as the usual list of 'suspects'

Whereas a Hispanic is someone from a Spanish speaking country--------no matter his race/ancestral ethnicity.

Jose Gonzalez; born/raised in Sweden is an Anglo--------despite being of Argentine heritage.

David Johansen; from Mexico (of probable Scandinavian lineage) would a Hispanic, legally speaking here in the USA.
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