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Now you're going to tell me what I meant? That's not what I meant, that would have been the purpose of CLARIFYING my statement, don't you think? I'm quite aware of the statistics for the entire state.
Hmm.. the only reasoned you seemed to have clarified your statement was because I called you out on it. How convenient
White are the majority right now, I don't feel any different. If the Chinese were the majority I wouldn't feel any different. I don't see what Race/Ethnicity has to do with someone running the country, its all about who can get the job done. You don't know if Hispanics consider themselves of their country from origin, are you Hispanic? I am an American and I am politically labeled Hispanic because of my Mexican decent.
You're right, ''whites'' are the majority which could change over time - not because of who lives in or moves to the United States, but I doubt that'd be true because new social beliefs will come about. The new belief of what ''white'' will become will obviously lean more towards considering Latin Americans to be white (even for ones that aren't of Spaniard descent). It's because America is protecting of this image, people will all be making the same money and people won't really have a reason to be different.
Mixing will become even more common. Many will leave Catholicism. They'll be fully Americanized, which it might sound inappropriate, but it means whitened. It's as if people believe our idea of whiteness, blackness and everything else will remain for the rest of eternity - we live in a liberated era, so expecting social change is natural.And if I were to move to Latin America and I assimilated there, I'd be equally overwhelmed by their version of their belief of ''whiteness.''
You're completely right though. I don't think anyone cares what race people are, as long as they're good people who can get the job done and not be a nuisance to our country. Anyone who works and has good family values like most immigrants from all places in this country are alike in that regard.
Central Valley eh? I'm sorry but that area of California has always had a high Mexican population since before California was part of the states.
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The Central Valley is the most impoverished, with migrant farm workers making less than minimum wage. Recently, the San Joaquin Valley was characterized as one of the most economically depressed regions in the U.S., on par with the region of Appalachia
Are you trying to be insulting here? I think you took my words out of context. If the term "Hispanic" bothers you, then use latino, chicano, or whatever you want, but my point remains the same. I live in CA, where Hispanics/latinos/Mexicans or whatever the hell you want to call them are by far the majority, and I am telling it like I see it.
And I can post some videos with speeches from Mayors, university professors and other latinos in power who ADMIT PUBLICALLY there preference for taking care of their own. So to refer that I am "idiotic" for such thoughts not only severely pisses me off, but is also wrong.
Also, I understand that "hispanics" come in all skin colors, I never made reference that I believed different. I however was referring to their culture, i.e. Spanish speaking, living in their own community enclaves and believing that with a majority of this type of behavior is the problem. Before making assumptions about what I meant or referring to my thoughts as "ignorant", perhaps next time you should clarify first.
As far as my reference to many whites and blacks not being aware of their ancestry, first of all I wasn't saying ALL, and second of all I am again going by my personal experience. Go do a random survey on the street, and ask a black person what country in Africa they're from. Ask a white person what country from Europe they're from. More times then you'd think, you will get " I don't know", or "I think I might be English or Irish". Why? Because they view themselves as AMERICANS, PERIOD. You wouldn't quite get the same answer from a Mexican, Cuban, El Salvadorean, etc., get my point now?
From now on if you disagree with one of my post, you should ask me what I meant if you're confused or politely disagree, but an entire essay of insulting my opinion isn't necessary. If you can't tell, I'm extremely angry and insulted by your post, and would appreciate a little respect in the future.
No, I'm not trying to be insulting. If you continue to talk to me, I'm sure you'll know that's not my nature - even if I come off to be pressing of my opinion. I know my opinion isn't necessarily right, but I know the facts I'm giving all of you are well-supporting to these theories.
The term ''Hispanic'' doesn't bother me that much. Latino, Chicano or what ever other crap anyone could create wouldn't bother me either. The idea of it irritates me though - because people are so blind to realize what's going on. People don't realize how they've never been taught why or how this term unnaturally ended up in our system. What ever term you use, as long as there is some kind of government or political affiliation with it - it's made to do two things. Increase the middle-class population of our country by grooming other nations poverty and keeping inner-city African-American behind - and getting worse.
I'm not arguing the technicality. Obviously, my interpretation will be different considering I live in New Jersey - but the point I was making that being ''Mexican'' is completely useless. If you're from there, that's one thing. However, if you're not - and can't speak fluent Spanish, what more is it than a nuisance? It's very likely that you'd be assimilated and not need Catholicism because few are religious in liberally expensive California. What could they remain that could be useful in any way? Just that nuisance of a useless title, right?
''And I can post some videos with speeches from Mayors, university professors and other latinos in power who ADMIT PUBLICALLY there preference for taking care of their own.''
Okay, just re-read that quote and think it over. Mayors = politics. They'll tell people they care about human-beings, but do they really? Come on man. No politician cares if some middle American like neither you or I lives or dies. Their own doesn't exist. Their not apart of it. There apart of their six figure salary. Do you think loser Mexican immigrants really give a crap for what any of them think?
There is no protecting their own. They can't even identify who is, without using some kind of disgusting old world ignorance - in which they'd often be incorrect in judging. And to those university professors, they may think they matter - but they don't. They aren't protecting anyone except for the people in their half a million dollar+ house. I don't consider them ''power'' figures. There is no unity in people. If they actually believed there was because the government told them in 1970 - well than I doubt they're very intellectual and probably support the ideals of old world collectivism, which directly works against capitalism and Americanism.
Nobody is truly apart of a group. It's useless. No one of us could care if the next person lived or die. Why would we? Do you honestly believe a Mexican immigrant getting paid 30 grand a year to do some construction job in California would economically support or be supported by another Mexican immigrant? No, they wouldn't. In fact, how would they even know if that person was from Mexico - if they didn't know them before coming to this country. Anyone could say they're anything they're want and no one cares and it never does anything. That's life in 2008 for everyone.
I'm not saying you're an idiot, but rather that you're looking at this the wrong way. You believe collectivism exists at a level in this country in which it doesn't, unless of course - you self indulge a load of crap into yourself. People are not containing culture as future generations go on, and you know it. All of us will live alike. The only people who want to believe there are things that make us different are people who are simply delusional.
I know you weren't referring to race, color or ethnicity - so we're on the same page with that. You talk about people who speak the Spanish language and live in their respective enclaves. Do you honestly believe that's how people will voluntarily keep living? Why would anyone choose to live like that? Once you're born in this country - you're as good as anyone in this country. Your parents are no indicator over any economic prosperity you create for yourself or not. Losers might say it is, but it's as a defense mechanism to why they couldn't create a half way decent life. That's everyone though.
Their ''community'' could care less if they stay or go. Regardless, it lasts one generation and dies. Anyone who really believes their neighbors really love them that much really haven't been tested. If you want to speak on the behalf of immigrants, I could understand somewhat. However, by saying ''Hispanics'' you directly included both immigrants and American of that descent. It's irrelevant to Americans of that descent - and especially middle-class educated ones. You're right, I should have asked to clarify - but you didn't exactly tell me if that was your intention in that statement or not.
I'm not even in disagreement on that most Euro-American and African-Americans having culture. To them though, culture has no foreign affiliation. To African-Americans in this country, that's the south and America. To white Americans, that is America and sometimes the south. That's what they prefer. They washed away their roots through extensive assimilation and mixing. Why do you believe it'd be any different for Mexican immigrants future ancestors?
The best comparison I could give you for Mexican immigrants on the West Coast and southwest is that they'll be the Italians of the northeast and central. They were predominantly uneducated blue-collared immigrants with high fertility who were the most populated of their day - but in the end, ended up living no different than the white Americans a generation or two later. To believe that they're special enough to contain some accelerated amount of culture is garbage. If you don't believe me, talk to people my Mexican descent my age (19) who were born in this country. Most got nothing and could care less. And I wouldn't lie, I don't got any foreign cultural affiliations either.
If you want to disagree, that's fine. Basically, I said Latin American immigrants were on the middle of the line. You were speaking on Americans abroad though. Latin American immigrants aren't that different than Asians to Euro-American and African-American when it comes to foreign cultural affiliation. Similarly though, it all dies and those who deny it are simply in denial.
No, I don't get your point. It's obviously more simple than you think for them though. In this country, several different immigrants built up this country. In Latin America, if you're white from Mexico or El Salvador and are not a recent immigrant - you have like a 95% of being of Spaniard descent. All you would have to do is look at your last name and you'd already have the answer. I really doubt the blacks there know any more about what countries their African ancestry come from than here. It probably wouldn't be much different than this country. And much of the indigenous culture had been wiped out. It's more simpler for them to know.
I have had a lot of conversations with people of Latin American descent though. For the white ones, obviously there answer was Spain almost every time. However, when I asked them when did there family arrive to what ever country it was from Spain - they never had a good answer. I wasn't expecting a detailed answer either like I could give all of you about my ancestors, including my great-great grandmother from Spain. Most Americans forgot who they were and mixing destroyed all possible affiliation. People converted out of Christian Denominations too, which took much of their old world traits from them. Honestly, both this country and there could do a better job at acknowledging their roots from the ''old world'', but they could care less for it.
I'm sorry if you were insulted or angered by my post. That wasn't my intention. I shouldn't have said idiotic. I was wrong for that. If you believe I came off impolitely, I'll watch. There is nothing wrong with us disagreeing, but I think it's fair to say that we won't be able to fully understand each others view.
Central Valley eh? I'm sorry but that area of California has always had a high Mexican population since before California was part of the states.
Is what you said....
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan
To clarify, I meant my city and surrounding cities. 60-70% Hispanic, 20-30% white.
Is what I said. So what exactly is your point besides proving me right? Does the fact that it's always been this way make my statement any more or less accurate?
The majority in CA depends solely on where you live in the state.
There is nothing wrong with being proud of one's heritage, unless of course it happens to be white European heritage. At least that is what we kept being told every day by all of the liberals and minorities.
Don't use the term ''minorities.'' It makes you sounds like you're a product of the corrupted media. In that term, none of us are stupid. We know that doesn't mean Asians. We know that means poor blacks and poor Latin American immigrants. Maybe because there are different Latin American immigrated groups in California you may see it a little differently, but I refuse to include a descendant of an oppressive Spaniard slave owner and/or rapist to be a ''minority'' or ''non-white'', simply because their economic situation sucks in this country because they immigrated from a country with no money.
Euro-Americans could be proud of their roots, but they don't know them. And even if they did know them, they wouldn't take themselves seriously. Same thing with blacks. Most whites live good and love America, so the way they see it - they don't really need anything else. If they want to feel different they'll go ahead and be a rocker for a year or something.
America's isolated segregated racist views promote the isolation of blacks too. As I said to plenty of people, they should believe black is beautiful physically but ugly socially. It's what keeps them poor and behind the rest of our country. Things like ''rap'' are the perfect example. No one should band together because of how they look in this modern world. Whites don't do that on purpose. They're the populace. It's much more common to see a middle-class suburban white be accepting to blacks, rather than an inner-city black being accepting to middle-class whites.
I'm sorry if you were insulted or angered by my post. That wasn't my intention. I shouldn't have said idiotic. I was wrong for that. If you believe I came off impolitely, I'll watch. There is nothing wrong with us disagreeing, but I think it's fair to say that we won't be able to fully understand each others view.
Apology accepted and appreciated.
All I was trying to say by my post is my concern of this scenario based on what I see everyday in the area that I live. The majority is Mexican, most of whom don't speak English, they have their own grocery stores, convenience stores, restuarants, and they tend to stay within their own micro commuity if you will. As for the rest of the people in my town, whites, blacks, asians, east indians, and assimilated Mexicans, all live together in harmony for the most part, living as one people, Americans. The Mexicans in my area have a very distinct line drawn between them and the rest of the community, and I think this is very unhealthy. To me, while there are many Latinos who will assimilate and become Amercians, there are many who will hold very strongly onto their allegiance to Mexico and believe in the whole "reconquista" movement, and that is my concern of a majority "hispanic" America. I don't care about color or country of origin, as long as you want to be an American, and my worry comes from the many Latinos I've personally witnessed who appear to me to have no desire to become Americans.
To clarify, I meant my city and surrounding cities. 60-70% Hispanic, 20-30% white. Would you like sources?
Where the hell did you see me say ANYTHING about there being something wrong with being proud of your heritage? At my high school there was an ethnic assembly for every race EXCEPT white people because it was considered racist to be proud of being white. MY POINT was it is my OPINION that if the majority of the US and it's elected leaders become hispanic/latino that the US culture will be primarily represented by Latin culture, not American culture, and I have a HUGE problem with that. That's my OPINION, that I have every right to have, and if anyone doesn't like it that's too damn bad.
That belief just isn't shared by all of our country though. Beyond the fact that Latin Americans never will become the majority of this country, they'd live as European-Americans in this country regardless of what there demographics ever become. That's true for politicians and regular citizens. Plus, by the time that could happen all their foreign exposure would be depleted, their ability to speak Spanish would mostly evaporate and they'd be inter-mixing with Euro-Americans all the time. You wouldn't even know who's Euro-American and Latin-American. In fact, we barely even know today even when people aren't mixed. How could their be a changing identity if no one knows who anyone is?
Culture is only contained in this country through non-assimilative measures. With all due respect, I doubt it'd be impossible not to assimilate in a place like California unless you voluntarily subjected yourself to a life not worth living. If you go to college and make 60-70 grand a year, you're socially integrated into white America. That's just the way how it is. You are not Latin America because that is your descent. Even in areas where it's predominant. It's useless. If it can't have any reasoning for your economics, heritage is usually seen as obsolete in this country. If you believe Mexican immigrants are exception to that social rule, than you are in the minority of that belief.
You could have what ever opinion you have, but you aren't clearly expressing it. We're on completely different pages. Just because you are technically something on the ''inney'' doesn't mean that's how you live on the ''outey.'' lol Remember that. Money is all that matters in capitalism. Some believe it to be the biggest evil. That's why it doesn't shock me that all of us lose the collective traits we believe to make us special which liberates us to advance ourselves as individuals.
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