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Old 07-27-2016, 09:42 PM
 
2,708 posts, read 3,793,361 times
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I watched the RNC last week fully and I'm watchig the DNC fully this week.

A loud mouth cousin brought up a point I never thought about....why is harsh illegal immigration reform seen as the US being all evil and big and bad when almost every other country in the world has similar views?

I as a young woman, can just get pregnant, hop on a plane and land in some European country and claim they can't deport me back to the US because I have a child that was born on their soil? I know other countries don't have the 14th amendment like we do but do you get what I'm saying?

Other countries are none too kind on people when they discover them illegally living in their country and boot them fast, fine them, etc. Overstaying visas, etc.

YET when someone in the US suggests doing this they're the axis of evil?


I couldn't go to the UK illegally and go to college yet in the US that's a possibility and when someone says that shouldn't happen why are they wrong? Are our allies the scum of the earth for doing it? No. Yet why are we?
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Old 07-27-2016, 09:54 PM
 
4,028 posts, read 1,966,193 times
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Your oversimplifying.

Our immigration policy is enormously complex and broken beyond easy repair. We have many, many, categories of persons who are allow to stay in this country legally (Cubans, Salvadoreans, occasionally Hondurans, many other countries) and approved by congress for Refugee status - yet we don't back this in the states so these persons can easily live as permanent residents.

YES, we need to fix anchor babies (no coming here if your 8 months pregnant). We need to stop illegal border crossing which contributes to exploitation and drug smuggling but it is silly to demonize millions of immigrants who have lived and worked in this country for years as productive residents.

And no our "Legal" immigration policy is far more restrictive than that of most of the EU, Canada, AUS, and many other countries even though we assimilate immigrants better than most countries.
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Old 07-28-2016, 07:28 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,618 posts, read 31,208,083 times
Reputation: 26690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
Your oversimplifying.

Our immigration policy is enormously complex and broken beyond easy repair. We have many, many, categories of persons who are allow to stay in this country legally (Cubans, Salvadoreans, occasionally Hondurans, many other countries) and approved by congress for Refugee status - yet we don't back this in the states so these persons can easily live as permanent residents.

YES, we need to fix anchor babies (no coming here if your 8 months pregnant). We need to stop illegal border crossing which contributes to exploitation and drug smuggling but it is silly to demonize millions of immigrants who have lived and worked in this country for years as productive residents.

And no our "Legal" immigration policy is far more restrictive than that of most of the EU, Canada, AUS, and many other countries even though we assimilate immigrants better than most countries.
Our system is no more complex than many other nations' systems, and ours is in fact extremely generous when it comes to family reunification and immigration from the Third World.

The UK also has many exceptions and special categories for immigration based on where you were born, when you were born, and even what nationality your grandparents were if they were born before a certain date (i.e. born before Irish independence, etc). Other countries can grant citizenship on the basis of ethnic ties (Germany, Poland).

Getting a visa to live in most EU countries is next to impossible unless you marry a citizen, are transferred there for work, are a student, or are seeking asylum. First world citizens obviously do not qualify for the last category. Transferring status is also complicated. If you're American, wish to live in the EU, and do not have a high-flying job or money to live on while you go to college, your only option (usually) is to marry a local.

Our system is far too generous and lax. It's only "complicated" because of its generosity.
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Old 07-28-2016, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,101,778 times
Reputation: 18141
^^^ What BigDGeek says.
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Old 07-28-2016, 07:40 AM
 
31,712 posts, read 14,631,102 times
Reputation: 8456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
Your oversimplifying.

Our immigration policy is enormously complex and broken beyond easy repair. We have many, many, categories of persons who are allow to stay in this country legally (Cubans, Salvadoreans, occasionally Hondurans, many other countries) and approved by congress for Refugee status - yet we don't back this in the states so these persons can easily live as permanent residents.

YES, we need to fix anchor babies (no coming here if your 8 months pregnant). We need to stop illegal border crossing which contributes to exploitation and drug smuggling but it is silly to demonize millions of immigrants who have lived and worked in this country for years as productive residents.

And no our "Legal" immigration policy is far more restrictive than that of most of the EU, Canada, AUS, and many other countries even though we assimilate immigrants better than most countries.
Demonizing "immigrants"? Illegal aliens aren't plain ole "immigrants". Blurring those lines adds nothing to the debate. IMO, why should illegal aliens get to remain here just because they managed to evade the law for years? They are only producing for themselves and their own families. They add nothing to the well being of this country and its citizens. They cost us $113 billion a year in taxes and send billions back to their homelands not spent in our economy. Paying taxes and working a job they aren't lawfully entitled to (that they stole from an American) does not excuse them for breaking the law. It certainly wouldn't excuse an American for doing so. Law breakers should be demonized.


Just because it isn't easy to come here legally and we have annual quotas for legal immigration does not excuse anyone for coming her illegally anyway. That is disrespectful.
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Old 07-31-2016, 09:32 AM
 
3,002 posts, read 1,973,009 times
Reputation: 3350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
Your oversimplifying.

Our immigration policy is enormously complex and broken beyond easy repair. We have many, many, categories of persons who are allow to stay in this country legally (Cubans, Salvadoreans, occasionally Hondurans, many other countries) and approved by congress for Refugee status - yet we don't back this in the states so these persons can easily live as permanent residents.

YES, we need to fix anchor babies (no coming here if your 8 months pregnant). We need to stop illegal border crossing which contributes to exploitation and drug smuggling but it is silly to demonize millions of immigrants who have lived and worked in this country for years as productive residents.

And no our "Legal" immigration policy is far more restrictive than that of most of the EU, Canada, AUS, and many other countries even though we assimilate immigrants better than most countries.

1986 we gave amnesty to, "Millions of illegal immigrants who have lived and worked in this country for years as productive residents" called the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. What did that produce 30 years later, "Millions of illegal immigrants who have lived and worked in this country for years as productive residents" waiting for the next amnesty.

The only way to fix the problem here is to stop the ability of the illegal to make a living here ban them from owning property, ban them from using our banks, Make the fine so big for not using E-verify when hiring someone that no business will risk it. Change the 14th amendment so it says your parents have to be legal residents. In Europe it's very difficult to get employment when your not legal.

Then and only then can we actually make our immigration program work. Until then as long as we allow people to come here illegally and thrive plus the knowledge that eventually it will lead to Amnesty nothing will change. Guest worker programs already exist no one uses them because the illegal is always cheaper. Building a wall is a joke they just go around it under it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigr...ol_Act_of_1986

Last edited by kell490; 07-31-2016 at 09:42 AM..
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Old 07-31-2016, 10:22 AM
 
31,712 posts, read 14,631,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490 View Post
1986 we gave amnesty to, "Millions of illegal immigrants who have lived and worked in this country for years as productive residents" called the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. What did that produce 30 years later, "Millions of illegal immigrants who have lived and worked in this country for years as productive residents" waiting for the next amnesty.

The only way to fix the problem here is to stop the ability of the illegal to make a living here ban them from owning property, ban them from using our banks, Make the fine so big for not using E-verify when hiring someone that no business will risk it. Change the 14th amendment so it says your parents have to be legal residents. In Europe it's very difficult to get employment when your not legal.

Then and only then can we actually make our immigration program work. Until then as long as we allow people to come here illegally and thrive plus the knowledge that eventually it will lead to Amnesty nothing will change. Guest worker programs already exist no one uses them because the illegal is always cheaper. Building a wall is a joke they just go around it under it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigr...ol_Act_of_1986

I agree with all your said except your last sentence. Walls do work and there are tunnel sensors to keep them from building under them. We need the 700 mile wall built that was already approved by congress. It was to be built on the most porous areas of our border. Here are a couple links for you.


Where U.S.-Mexico border fence is tall, it works


San Diego Fence Provides Lessons in Border Control : NPR
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Old 08-02-2016, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Southern NH
2,490 posts, read 4,795,536 times
Reputation: 1668
Illegal immigration is tolerated by both parties for different reasons. Democrats see the illegals as potential future voters and they are probably correct. Republicans are beholding to their corporate donors who like illegal immigrants as they are cheap labor and consumers of what corporations produce. To me (son of legal immigrants), there is a huge difference between legal and illegal immigrants.
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Old 08-03-2016, 07:17 AM
 
31,712 posts, read 14,631,102 times
Reputation: 8456
Quote:
Originally Posted by seamusnh View Post
Illegal immigration is tolerated by both parties for different reasons. Democrats see the illegals as potential future voters and they are probably correct. Republicans are beholding to their corporate donors who like illegal immigrants as they are cheap labor and consumers of what corporations produce. To me (son of legal immigrants), there is a huge difference between legal and illegal immigrants.

Actually, both parties are beholding to their corporate donors. It's not just a GOP thing.
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Old 08-05-2016, 03:54 AM
 
Location: Detroit, Michigan
381 posts, read 118,625 times
Reputation: 156
Because the U.S. is where most potential immigrants want to come and people want to bend the rules to make it easier. The U.S. immigration system is very flexible and giving already because many come here on family-based visas. If the immigrant is an immediate family member, it's not counted toward the 480,000 cap on family-based visas in a year; meaning, there are no limits on visas for immediate relatives.
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