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Old 09-07-2016, 05:06 AM
 
33,139 posts, read 39,090,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
There are millions of illegals working in the US. Americans can't do a job an illegal is already taking.
I think you miss my point ,if Americans were already doing the jobs Mexicans are hired to do then there would be no room for employing a Mexican to do any given job.
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Old 09-07-2016, 05:19 AM
 
33,139 posts, read 39,090,825 times
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Originally Posted by jvr789 View Post
You mean, if 10 million+ Americans citizens knowingly participated in broad-scale tax fraud, there would be no jobs to take? I mean come on, to compete with an illegal you would have to work under the table, right? Yeah, I'll pass on the tax evasion charges thank you.

It is completely obvious that illegals suppress wages and worker rights. Illegal is the new Pinkerton. We had the great robber barons of the past and it sure looks like we are starting to turn back to that page in history. Same story, different characters.
I'm not getting your line of reasoning jv. if a Mexican works out in a field or some equivalent low paying job thats ok but if an American goes for the same low paying job he is some how committing tax fraud. While an employer has no choice but to pay an illegal his wages under the table that employer doesnt have to commit to the same method of payment to an American worker and can pay him over the table.
If we are talking farm labor jobs the method of payment is almost always cash based on how many buckets or baskets of produce you pick, at the end of the day you get your daily tallied earnings and its up to you to take care of your income tax obligations so it makes little difference what your immigration status is..
I'm sure to avoid breaking any labor laws any employer would rather hire American workers than Mexican workers but if there are no available American workers available but Mexican workers are at hand whats an employer supposed to do,just go out of business?.

Last edited by jambo101; 09-07-2016 at 05:31 AM..
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Old 09-07-2016, 08:04 AM
 
31,488 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Americans were already doing the jobs that illegals took by working for less. These greedy employers didn't need illegals to work for them because Americans wouldn't do those jobs for a fair wage. The employers simply wanted to increase their profits so they chased Americans off those jobs and hired cheap illegals instead. That also created language barriers by having a mostly Spanish speaking work force.
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,141 posts, read 10,574,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Americans were already doing the jobs that illegals took by working for less. These greedy employers didn't need illegals to work for them because Americans wouldn't do those jobs for a fair wage. The employers simply wanted to increase their profits so they chased Americans off those jobs and hired cheap illegals instead. That also created language barriers by having a mostly Spanish speaking work force.
Everybody forgot about our Presidents 30 and 40 years ago that would praise American workers as the most productive workers in the world. Now all we hear is that Americans are too stupid, dumb and lazy! It is amazing that our politicians do not think 'we' pay them a living wage; they have to turn to the special perks awarded from playing the crony system.

The system doesn't work. It desperately need change. It needs to get back to the basics: We hired you to represent US; not them!

By the way, "The employers simply wanted to increase their profits...." That is what I fear about the coming automation. Nobody really has any plans to distribute this new wealth. It isn't only that; but we no longer crack down on any monopolies. So, while we complain about the dictators in other countries; we are poised (if it has not happed yet) for just a handful of the super wealthy to call all of the shots.
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Old 09-07-2016, 03:54 PM
 
385 posts, read 227,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
I'm not getting your line of reasoning jv. if a Mexican works out in a field or some equivalent low paying job thats ok but if an American goes for the same low paying job he is some how committing tax fraud. While an employer has no choice but to pay an illegal his wages under the table that employer doesnt have to commit to the same method of payment to an American worker and can pay him over the table.
If we are talking farm labor jobs the method of payment is almost always cash based on how many buckets or baskets of produce you pick, at the end of the day you get your daily tallied earnings and its up to you to take care of your income tax obligations so it makes little difference what your immigration status is..
I'm sure to avoid breaking any labor laws any employer would rather hire American workers than Mexican workers but if there are no available American workers available but Mexican workers are at hand whats an employer supposed to do,just go out of business?.

1. I'm not sure what a Mexican has to do with this discussion. I am talking about illegal aliens - does not matter where they are from.


2. Do you really think those employers who are paying cash to an illegal are reporting this income to the government? Who's SSN are they reporting it under? Yeah, no. However, if a US Citizen takes the job and reports the cash, the employer needs to as well (otherwise they are caught with tax evasion). AND the employer has to pay taxes on that income (and I'm not just talking about withholding for the employee here). Now is the employer making more or making less by hiring an illegal? The employers margin is higher in the cash situation to the illegal. So no, in industries dominated by illegals, US citizens can't compete if nobody is enforcing immigration laws. Unless the US citizen is fine with committing tax fraud. This has nothing to do with a US Citizen not wanting to mow a lawn, pick fruit or roof a house.


3. Meanwhile, all us working and income reporting US Citizens are paying taxes which go to help fund schools, meals and other perks for illegal's children who are born here. Our effective pay is being fleeced by the employers of illegals (they don't pay them enough, so now we have to make up the difference).


It is very easy to see that this is one reason the middle is being hollowed-out.
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Old 09-07-2016, 04:36 PM
 
31,488 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Originally Posted by jvr789 View Post
1. I'm not sure what a Mexican has to do with this discussion. I am talking about illegal aliens - does not matter where they are from.


2. Do you really think those employers who are paying cash to an illegal are reporting this income to the government? Who's SSN are they reporting it under? Yeah, no. However, if a US Citizen takes the job and reports the cash, the employer needs to as well (otherwise they are caught with tax evasion). AND the employer has to pay taxes on that income (and I'm not just talking about withholding for the employee here). Now is the employer making more or making less by hiring an illegal? The employers margin is higher in the cash situation to the illegal. So no, in industries dominated by illegals, US citizens can't compete if nobody is enforcing immigration laws. Unless the US citizen is fine with committing tax fraud. This has nothing to do with a US Citizen not wanting to mow a lawn, pick fruit or roof a house.


3. Meanwhile, all us working and income reporting US Citizens are paying taxes which go to help fund schools, meals and other perks for illegal's children who are born here. Our effective pay is being fleeced by the employers of illegals (they don't pay them enough, so now we have to make up the difference).


It is very easy to see that this is one reason the middle is being hollowed-out.

Good post. I would only add that in the case of crop pickers there are unlimited visas for legal, foreign workers so why would a farmer need Americans or illegal aliens to pick his crops?
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:22 PM
 
11,682 posts, read 3,261,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
I think you miss my point ,if Americans were already doing the jobs Mexicans are hired to do then there would be no room for employing a Mexican to do any given job.
No you're missing the point that Americans get fired or look for another job and can't find one or as many because employers are hiring illegals.

You're argument makes less sense then asking how can companies outsource jobs to Mexico and China if Americans were already doing the jobs.
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:26 PM
 
11,682 posts, read 3,261,930 times
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Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Good post. I would only add that in the case of crop pickers there are unlimited visas for legal, foreign workers so why would a farmer need Americans or illegal aliens to pick his crops?
Yep both the illegals and those who employ them are benefiting from being tax cheats. They're like a cartel.
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Old 09-07-2016, 08:21 PM
 
31,488 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
No you're missing the point that Americans get fired or look for another job and can't find one or as many because employers are hiring illegals.

You're argument makes less sense then asking how can companies outsource jobs to Mexico and China if Americans were already doing the jobs.

Yes, the construction industry is a good example. Americans were already doing those jobs for a fair wage but the greedy employers had access to cheap, illegal labor which increased their profits so they got rid of their American workforce. How anyone can deny that or needs it explained to them is beyond me.
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Old 09-08-2016, 02:15 AM
 
33,139 posts, read 39,090,825 times
Reputation: 28489
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
No you're missing the point that Americans get fired or look for another job and can't find one or as many because employers are hiring illegals.

You're argument makes less sense then asking how can companies outsource jobs to Mexico and China if Americans were already doing the jobs.


If an American is doing a low wage job and his employer decides to hire some one for less money then the job obviously wasnt worth the wage being paid and some one else is willing to do the job for less thats the way the market works. as for hiring undocumented illegals? IMO its the rare illegal that hasnt equipped himself with the fake id package making it almost impossible for an employer to easily determin any given employee is in fact an illegal.=
https://www.google.ca/search?q=fake+...k1.vjfmiJw9Vo8
Out sourcing jobs is another issue all together.
jvr As for your taxes supporting Americas illegal demographic? most of them are working and while not filing a federal income tax they do pay taxes on items bought and do support the local economy by buying stuff. What amount of taxes are coming out of your pocket to support Americas 2% illegal demographic?
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