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Old 08-24-2016, 05:44 PM
 
4,010 posts, read 1,954,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I wouldn't flee to another country for economic opportunity at the expense of the rightful citizens of that country. Many of us aren't "round em all" people either we just want our laws on the books enforced which isn't happening anymore.
I call BS on that - you would if your life and or liberty were under daily threat - anyone would. That should not be hard to understand.

Everyone on this thread should point their blame at our dated immigration laws whereby certain immigrants are welcome to stay in the US, even if caught by INS/Customs because of our refugee status grants - such as for Honduras, El Salvador, and Cuba perhaps other. The blame is on Congress and their failure to update our laws - which encourages more to come.
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:57 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88 View Post
You write as if Third world & 1st world were immutable categories, foreordained by God & the heavenly host, valid once & forever, World without end, amen. They are not. Up until the Civil War or so, the US was regarded as a quaint country, fit to war on Mexico & intervene in the Caribbean & Central & South America. The World took notice when we pushed the Spanish Empire in the Caribbean into the drink, & tumbled the Spanish fleet & army in the Philippines into an early retirement. & then took over the landlord's manse for ourselves (to Christianize the Philippines, we told ourselves. Never mind that the Spanish had been on hand doing the same missionary work since 1564CE - but it had only been 334 years or so - what's a century or two among conquistadores, eh?)


& of course, Europe was down for a long time, Islam was up & down, the Spanish, Portuguese, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, British, Italy/Rome, Greece - it seems like everyone takes a turn. There may be a lesson there.


There are concrete reasons that the New World is the way it is now, along with the Caribbean. You could look into that - I'd start with John Negroponte, former Director of National Intelligence, I believe it's called. Look @ his career - & John Foster Dulles & his brother @ CIA in Pres. Eisenhower's admin, & Guatemala, & the US intervention in Iran around the same time. There's a lot of history there.


& as to the US as another kind of Latin America - well, yah, I believe the US is now the 2nd-largest Spanish-speaking population in the World - last time I looked. ¡Cuídate, México!
The truth hurts that LatAm's a mess. Word is the US, Australia, New Zealand, England, Canada and even Ireland are still pretty decent places in 2016: ALL of those countries have STRONG English ways of doing things.
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:59 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
I call BS on that - you would if your life and or liberty were under daily threat - anyone would. That should not be hard to understand.

Everyone on this thread should point their blame at our dated immigration laws whereby certain immigrants are welcome to stay in the US, even if caught by INS/Customs because of our refugee status grants - such as for Honduras, El Salvador, and Cuba perhaps other. The blame is on Congress and their failure to update our laws - which encourages more to come.
I'd love to see our immigration laws rolled back to 1964. If that makes a LOT of the world hate the US even more; I don't care since many countries already hate us in 2016.
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Old 08-24-2016, 06:51 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,479 posts, read 1,419,774 times
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Default This too, shall pass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
The truth hurts that LatAm's a mess. Word is the US, Australia, New Zealand, England, Canada and even Ireland are still pretty decent places in 2016: ALL of those countries have STRONG English ways of doing things.
Yah, some of LatAm's issues have to do with the government & religious & cultural patterning that came over with the Spanish conquistadores, right enough. Then again, Spain had just fought free of Islam after near 800 years. So it's somewhat understandable that they were dazed by success.


& would even Ireland, I'd be wonderin', allow the claim that they have STRONG English ways o' doin' things? I wouldn't think so, me self, 'n' it's fair certain to me that we'd have us a fine donnybrook o'er the question, if'n it were in person.


If the Irish diaspora rose in the World, it's because they were driven out of Ireland by British indifference to their fate (the Potato Famine) & absentee landlords & an imposed gentry & government. & industrialization (the demand for wool) drove them off tenant lands & into factories or overseas. A good lot of them landed in the New World, in New England & Canada (& other places too), although as a group I think they did best in the US & Canada. There were a lot of difficulties put in their way - they were Catholic, for one - but they persevered, & organized. Their rise contributed to the rise of the US in the World too, & it's a good thing, overall.
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:41 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88 View Post
Yah, some of LatAm's issues have to do with the government & religious & cultural patterning that came over with the Spanish conquistadores, right enough. Then again, Spain had just fought free of Islam after near 800 years. So it's somewhat understandable that they were dazed by success.


& would even Ireland, I'd be wonderin', allow the claim that they have STRONG English ways o' doin' things? I wouldn't think so, me self, 'n' it's fair certain to me that we'd have us a fine donnybrook o'er the question, if'n it were in person.


If the Irish diaspora rose in the World, it's because they were driven out of Ireland by British indifference to their fate (the Potato Famine) & absentee landlords & an imposed gentry & government. & industrialization (the demand for wool) drove them off tenant lands & into factories or overseas. A good lot of them landed in the New World, in New England & Canada (& other places too), although as a group I think they did best in the US & Canada. There were a lot of difficulties put in their way - they were Catholic, for one - but they persevered, & organized. Their rise contributed to the rise of the US in the World too, & it's a good thing, overall.
Ok; I'm of Irish family but, I'll give the devil his due in that us "Irish" mostly knowing good English as well as taking the better parts of Brit culture and, making it our own def paid off big time especially since WW 2.

Too; when "my people" stepped up and, started taking care of business is when we started really earning respect. Going from "Shanty Irish' TO "Lace Curtain Irish" def helped like as in learning to save our money, getting educated, backing away being be a bunch of brawling drunkards and so on also helped.
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:28 PM
 
31,458 posts, read 14,559,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
I call BS on that - you would if your life and or liberty were under daily threat - anyone would. That should not be hard to understand.

Everyone on this thread should point their blame at our dated immigration laws whereby certain immigrants are welcome to stay in the US, even if caught by INS/Customs because of our refugee status grants - such as for Honduras, El Salvador, and Cuba perhaps other. The blame is on Congress and their failure to update our laws - which encourages more to come.

I said I would not enter a country illegally simply for economic gain. I also said if my life were in danger I would ask for asylum in another country. Did you miss those posts?


How are our immigration laws outdated? Every illegal is being protected under Obama unless they are "convicted" criminals and that is not within our laws. There is a difference between an illegal alien and a refugee though. However, at some point we will have to limit refugees into our country also.


Are you saying we should raise our annual quotas for legal immigration? Why? They are already based on our ability to provide immigrants with jobs and resources without it negatively impacting our own citizens. Isn't that already a smart policy?
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:36 PM
 
31,458 posts, read 14,559,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLVgal View Post
The people coming here for economic reasons need to stay home. We have enough of our own poverty.

And not you, but some other people around here just want to trash talk Hispanic people or black people, even if they are Americans.

There are a ton of Hispanics where I live. I'm not happy about the fact that many of them are here illegally. It has put enormous pressure on our school system, emergency rooms, etc.

That said, I haven't found them to be tribalistic. Maybe it's just my city.

The majority of those who are citizens defend them and support amnesty. That's tribalism that trumps our immigration laws. I think we need to get back on topic though.


I certainly would grant asylum to the woman and daughter who are the subject of this discussion. It is admirable how she went up against those nasty gangs and risked her life to do so.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:04 AM
 
6,242 posts, read 2,165,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
As Packard Fan asked why aren't they moving to another non-violent Latino country then? We can't be the flophouse to the world.
They are.

Illegal immigration poses burden for developing nations as well as U.S.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:14 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vacoder View Post
Only because of the violence in Mexico, otherwise they too would be here.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by vacoder View Post

Bet they don't have the number of them that we do here though.
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