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Old 08-25-2016, 05:36 PM
 
10,700 posts, read 3,742,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schempgo View Post
It's easy to deport illegal aliens. Illegal aliens aren't idiots. They're humans reacting to positive rewards, just like anyone would do. They come here for the all-cash jobs under the table, the government benefits, and the promise of citizenship for at least their kids. Remove those incentives and they leave. They're not going to just sit here and starve. At that point, they'd probably migrate to Canada, continually following the trail of free money. Self-deportation is only mocked by people who aren't intelligent enough to understand what it means.
They come here for the jobs which are not going away. Already too many work of the books which undermines the US custom of paying your income tax. Tighten down and you force more off the books.

The only ones who get any welfare are the US citizen who get the same as other US citizen. Only benefit illegal aliens get is the schooling of their non citizen children who actually are not illegal.

Any change to birthright citizenship involves a change to the Constitution which is efffectively impossible.

Self deportation is a right wing fantasy. You will have more luck clicking the heels on your red shoes three times.
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Old 08-25-2016, 05:42 PM
 
10,700 posts, read 3,742,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve40th View Post
Well, I guess if we were speaking in front of each other things would be a little easier. Besides the issues with robberies and murders, the real problem lies in accountability.
If we account for everyone coming in, via an easier program to account for them via visas etc, then we know who is here and legally. You are still going to have illegals, no matter what you do.
So, once in, they are now paying taxes, buying healthcare blah blah blah.
I am not for them breaking the law, far from it. I proposed gun ranges on the borders with ammunition all going south, but it was not taken well.
I feel that people need to stop pandering to them, catering to them as if they are some lost soul needing help.. F that. Start calling them out, arresting them if they arent citizens and deport them. If they come back, put them in Cuba ( at our favorite hotel, run by the Navy).
But, back to the problem, we dont have accountability for them. And when we do find them, we put them right back out in society, no accountability at all to the cities, the taxpayers, politicians. They just send them right back out.
Well, I hope you laughed your arse off in the last post.
Trust, I am not against immigration. I feel we need to tackle the root problem and fix it over time, as you arent going to round up 11 million potential voters and send them south.
The right wing fantasy yet again.

Costs money to catch and deport. Tens to hundred of billions. We do not intend to spend that money and it might well fail if we did. Cuba is the most expensive prison in the US system.

Crime rates will go up if you remove illegal aliens.

And a few million children who are legal citizens and would end up deported as well. Consider the prob lem when they come back at 18 or so.
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Old 08-25-2016, 06:28 PM
 
Location: the Sticks
6,730 posts, read 1,897,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debate_Drone View Post
There is no provision in E-verify that the employer notify ICE on someone that does not pass E-verification.
That can be added. That said the problem now is that employers caught hiring illegals, need only say they didn't know the person was an illegal.
With E-verify that eliminates the loophole. I would make E-verify mandatory for landlords and banks as well.
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Old 08-25-2016, 06:33 PM
 
31,475 posts, read 14,565,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schempgo View Post
Why should we make legal immigration easier? I always laugh when people make arguments like that. "If you want fewer illegal immigrants, then just expand legal immigration." Huh, OK. I guess if you want fewer bank robberies, just put cash outside the bank. That didn't stop the problem, it just made it so you don't have to call it what it is any more. Even if we only let in one legal immigrant per year, that doesn't justify anyone else jumping the border under the "you have to let more in, so breaking the law is suddenly fine" argument.

Thanks. I so enjoyed your post.
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Old 08-25-2016, 07:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
That can be added. That said the problem now is that employers caught hiring illegals, need only say they didn't know the person was an illegal.
With E-verify that eliminates the loophole. I would make E-verify mandatory for landlords and banks as well.
I believe youi would and a number of folk who contribute to these threads. But the US legislators will not. Always been and will be the problem with these hiring bans. They won't pass except requiring knowledge...which is virtually impossible to prove.

Yet another facet of the Right Wing Fantasy.
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Old 08-27-2016, 09:02 AM
 
Location: the Sticks
6,730 posts, read 1,897,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
I believe youi would and a number of folk who contribute to these threads. But the US legislators will not. Always been and will be the problem with these hiring bans. They won't pass except requiring knowledge...which is virtually impossible to prove.

Yet another facet of the Right Wing Fantasy.
Are you saying it is wrong for us to roll out E-Verify so that employers are required to verify the legal status of their employees? Many employers already do it, including the one I work for.
Is it wrong to require land lords to use E-verify?
Banks?
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Old 08-27-2016, 09:46 AM
 
3,932 posts, read 2,278,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
The right wing fantasy yet again.
Why Right WIng? what the hell is wrong with being a conservative? What are you going to lose if conservatives get their leaders on track with their ideals of proper use of government for the next 8 years?
HHMMM. WHat are you scared of? Having to work?
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Old 08-27-2016, 11:19 AM
 
8,063 posts, read 3,621,800 times
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Default Deport the easy ones first!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
LA Times analysis piece on the practicality of the Trump plans...

Can Donald Trump really round up and deport 11 million people? - LA Times

Bottom line...no way is it going to occur.

Border Patrol union wants to double the number of border patrol enforcement types. Only problem is you have to double most of the Border Patrol to pull that off. You need detention facilities and courts and lawyers and judges.
Rounding up is a reach, although I like the idea! enforcing Laws, Visa and Pass Port violations, Tracking pass port holders while visiting this country.


Violent crime Immigrants along with the Expired Visa Holders and expired work permits.


E Verify and employer fines will cause many to self Deport. Deporting on that scale will be the last resort to maintain our borders as a Country. But it could be well worth the expense to lower the ridiculous number of 12million Illegals.


It will be a process , but if law enforcement takes this issue seriously and do a step by step plan it is totally possible
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Old 08-27-2016, 11:30 AM
 
10,700 posts, read 3,742,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
Are you saying it is wrong for us to roll out E-Verify so that employers are required to verify the legal status of their employees? Many employers already do it, including the one I work for.
Is it wrong to require land lords to use E-verify?
Banks?
I am pointing out that 30 years of experience says we will not roll out any type of tight employment laws. It is utterly opposed by the business community who has sufficient clout to prevent it...as they have over the recent decades.

Employers even now walk a tight rope. It is perfectly legal to avoid hiring illegal aliens...but it is illegal to discriminate against Hispanics. And right there is a big problem for employers.

Using Landlords or Banks or Driver Licenses all have problems and open up wide opportunities. for discrimination and create other problems.

The solution of course is to simply enforce the immigration laws on the books. That however is impossible with the existing illegal population. So you have to fix that population before you are able to manage the illegals.
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Old 08-27-2016, 11:43 AM
 
10,700 posts, read 3,742,867 times
Reputation: 4683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve40th View Post
Why Right WIng? what the hell is wrong with being a conservative? What are you going to lose if conservatives get their leaders on track with their ideals of proper use of government for the next 8 years?
HHMMM. WHat are you scared of? Having to work?
It is not just a right wing issue but it is led from that side and the vast majority of those opposed to the obvious solutions are conservatives. See the Senate Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill. The House Republican leadership will not allow a vote as they know it would pass. So it is the conservative wing of the Republican party that refuses the compromise solution.

I have long passed the need to work though I still do.
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