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Old 04-10-2008, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaShay87 View Post
Actually you have to be an American citizen to collect welfare, because of the fact that you have to have a valid I.D. and social security card (number). So that argument can just go out the window.

I have been reading this thread and I think we need to maintain low tones
I hear and understand that some say this is not a racial issue but...the OP was asking from a race perspective. I am mixed and I have a so-so opinion on the subject.
Quote:
Not ALL of illegals are bad,
or take jobs or commiting crime, they just want something better than what is waiting for them back home. Wasn't that the whole point of founding the U.S. But, I can also see the argument of Hispanic gangs (mostly illegal) targeting blacks and black gangs. If the gangs want to wipe each other out then I am all for it (that sounds horrible but so be it) but I am not ok with innocents being attacked. This is a federal issue that cannot somehow be solved.
I'm tired of hearing this used as some excuse.

Fine.............only 90% are bad, the 10% that are hard working and only came over here for a better life,well,,they only entered this country illegally, which is a crime...but because of that 10%,,,,,,,you want to excuse all of them.
If this 10% is as good and honest as you claim, why haven't the offered to file for citizenship or learned english on their own by now?
If they had any respect for this country,the citizens and our laws, that's just what they would be doing. I don't hear this happening,,, do you?

They "all" broke the law by knowingly entering this country Illegally, so that proves that no % is any better than the rest.
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Old 04-10-2008, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,686 posts, read 6,830,363 times
Reputation: 1174
All illegals broke the law coming here. Some are definitely worse than others.

Many of my friends are illegals and broke the law coming here. I think it is unfair to call my 25 year old friend Fabiola who came here when she was 18 a bad person.

The same is true for my friend Laura (age 39) whose 14 year old daughter Tanya came here when she was 5 with her parents.

Both Fabiola and Laura work and do not do drugs or sell drugs. They do not rely upon govt aid and have decent paying jobs ($12-15/hr) given that they do not have papers. With papers they would make more most likely (both are smarter than the average bear).

There are also those who came here illegally and sell drugs and kill people and are involved in gangs.

There are certainly some that are better than others. Saying they are all the same is unfair.
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Old 04-10-2008, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Over the Rainbow...
5,963 posts, read 10,494,121 times
Reputation: 3135
Default And..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humboldt1 View Post
Most of the poor blacks in Chicago complain about how Hispanics are taking their jobs and how the govt is putting the hispanics, particularly Mexicans, in front of them.

These are the same people that complain about everthing, though. Entitlement is so ingrained in their culture that many do not know what it is like to go out there and get stuff on their own. They are basically greedy and spoiled, expecting the govt to take care of them. They see illegals coming in and getting free health care and realize that some of that money is being diverted away from programs that subsidize their existence.

When Wal-Mart came to Chicago, it came to a mostly black neighborhood. I have seen 2 hispanics working there and maybe 500 blacks working there even though Hispanics are about 2/3 of their business. Blacks are about 1/3 of their business. You also have token white and asian people like me who stop in to get cheap groceries. Hispanics were clearly not given first consideration when they were doing the hiring. The alderman is black and made sure her constituents were served first, which is only natural, especially in big cities like Chicago.

Many of the blacks complain about how they are losing jobs but many are not willing to work at McDonald's for min. wage ($7.50/hr here in Chicago). I believe Wal-Mart pays slightly better, maybe 9-10/hr. I told one of my black neighbors I would help him find a job at my bank if he kept his Wal-Mart job 6 months. He weekly reminds me of this and has been there 3 months. I will honor my promise.

The true is, Americans, whether black or white, don't want to work minimum wage jobs that many Mexicans are willing to do. Would you want to be like one of my neighbors who makes $7.50/hr and carries heavy boxes all day to the point where he is nearly disabled with no benefits?

I know I wouldn't.

For those blacks (and whites) willing to work they have nothing to fear from illegal immigrants. For those still stuck with entitlement mentality and fear competing with illegals for federal vouchers and subsidies I wish you would go complain to someone else.
Tell that to the construction trade where American workers make $25-$30 an hour which is a fair wage for skilled construction. Then comes an illegal who is willing to work for $15 an hour. So greedy company hires the illegal. Do you see what I mean?
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Old 04-10-2008, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,686 posts, read 6,830,363 times
Reputation: 1174
Default AlaskaPat

AlaskaPat,

I don't see what you mean.

I worked as a non-union construction laborer for 11.50/hr 10 years ago with no benefits. I worked as hard or harder than any of the union guys. I still get infuriated when I see women construction workers holding a flag or stop sign on a construction site, probably one of the lowest skills jobs I can imagine. I understand also the most dangerous but the same illegal you get to put on a Statue of Liberty outfit to promote Liberty Tax Services would gladly do that job for 1/3 of what that person makes. I ran a framing crew building hog houses and residential and small industrial buildings before getting into corporate banking (I am unique).

$25-30/hr is only a fair market wage if that is what the market will bear. Unions artificially inflate wages, which ultimately drives up the prices of goods and services for everyone else. This is what happened with UAW as the US automakers are in trouble for their pension obligations. In my opinion, thinking you are "entitled" to $25-30 an hour because you are union when a Mexican is willing to do the same job for $15/hr is silly.

I am talking the same job here. If the union guys are that much better fine, but if it is putting up drywall and the Mexican can do it just as good for less, I am going with the Mexican and not paying union wages.

It isn't just greedy companies that promote the hiring of illegals. For housing as an example, if all my subs are union on a $500M house this will add significantly to the price of the house vs. non-union labor. I don't advocate shoddy workmanship and appreciate that many union carpenters are quite skilled.

However, if I can buy the same house for $450M by using non-union framers and drywall guys and painters and so long as the quality is comparable I am going to do it. Most Americans will.

The same is true at McDonald's. With union wages, the guy making my Big Mac would be paid $10/hr instead of the $7.50/hr they make in Chicago. My value meal would now be $6 instead of $5. I am not paying an extra $1 everytime I go to McDonald's to support the union. Sorry.
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Old 04-10-2008, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humboldt1 View Post
All illegals broke the law coming here. Some are definitely worse than others.

Many of my friends are illegals and broke the law coming here. I think it is unfair to call my 25 year old friend Fabiola who came here when she was 18 a bad person.

The same is true for my friend Laura (age 39) whose 14 year old daughter Tanya came here when she was 5 with her parents.

Both Fabiola and Laura work and do not do drugs or sell drugs. They do not rely upon govt aid and have decent paying jobs ($12-15/hr) given that they do not have papers. With papers they would make more most likely (both are smarter than the average bear).

There are also those who came here illegally and sell drugs and kill people and are involved in gangs.

There are certainly some that are better than others. Saying they are all the same is unfair.
You have a "Conflict of Interest" here. that's not fair either.
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Old 04-10-2008, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611
Humboldt1 wrote:
Quote:
There are certainly some that are better than others. Saying they are all the same is unfair.
Ignorance of the Law is no excuse.
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Old 04-10-2008, 03:29 PM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,658,155 times
Reputation: 690
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
You have a "Conflict of Interest" here. that's not fair either.
Humboldbt1 sleeps with the enemy, what do you expect.
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Old 04-10-2008, 03:33 PM
 
Location: OC, CA
3,309 posts, read 5,031,707 times
Reputation: 645
Most non hispanic AMERICANS do not agree with illegal immigration regardless of race. Blacks and whites are probably on the same level as far as not liking illegals because they are deep rooted in American culture just as white Americans are.
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Old 04-10-2008, 03:46 PM
 
Location: California
1,268 posts, read 817,589 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocexpo View Post
Most non hispanic AMERICANS do not agree with illegal immigration regardless of race. Blacks and whites are probably on the same level as far as not liking illegals because they are deep rooted in American culture just as white Americans are.
What about Americans of Hispanic decent? or Americans of Asians decent? Are they not "deep rooted" in American culture?
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Old 04-10-2008, 03:49 PM
 
Location: OC, CA
3,309 posts, read 5,031,707 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exedous View Post
What about Americans of Hispanic decent? or Americans of Asians decent? Are they not "deep rooted" in American culture?
I said REGARDLESS OF RACE. It is at about 66% oppose illegal alien rights across the board for all races except hispanics. Hispanics are at about 6% opposed to illegal immigrant rights according to a previous gallup poll. That is what I meant.
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