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Old 02-28-2008, 08:54 AM
 
21,044 posts, read 19,007,637 times
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I get along fine in the workplace without talking about American Idol, sports, or Vegas...how unbelievably boring.

I think THE test for citizenship should be in English, be an English/speaking/writing/reading test, and a book report on at least one book written in English by an American author.
THEN we would know if this person truly wanted to be an American or just a money conduit to their former country.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:38 AM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
6,525 posts, read 11,614,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
I get along fine in the workplace without talking about American Idol, sports, or Vegas...how unbelievably boring.

I think THE test for citizenship should be in English, be an English/speaking/writing/reading test, and a book report on at least one book written in English by an American author.
THEN we would know if this person truly wanted to be an American or just a money conduit to their former country.
The book should be something like "Who Are You" by Samuel P. Huntington, the "Third World INvasion of America" by Pat Buchanan, or either a patriotic novel about the US going to war against terrorists and commies (the likes of Tom Clancy, Dale Brown or Vince Flynn) or a nostalgic novel about small-town America, especially Dixie and the heartland.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:59 AM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
6,525 posts, read 11,614,071 times
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Default France, UK, and Australia should be examples of assimilation failure

Malamute,

Thanks that exactly what I was getting at. And this is where the French bombings and the UK bombings come into this. Those were an effect of a large immigrant (first and second generation) that is culturally isolated, physically separated, self-segregated, and most importantly does not identify with France or Britain. I personally know a number of people from El Salvador, the Dominican Republic, China, Pakistan, and Iran who actually boast of how they are "True to their own culture" and reject being American. One girl I work with from El Salvador told me in her own words that "I'm not American, I'm not going to be American, whatever..." and even worse, "so what, some peopel in my family ARE ILLEGAL, I don't care..." I'm glad she didn't have time to add something about how the CIA messed up her country and hence we owe them stuff.

A lot of our government supports these divisions. In Montgomery County, MD, high school kids got community service hours for working for an advocacy group that marched in the illegal protests and provides help to illegal immigrants from Central America.

The French riots are indeed revelent to this country, especially as the lack of assimilation, acculturation, and Americanization continues. In 5 days after the ROdney King mess, more people died than in the French riots in a month. Imagine is something happens along the border involving the Border Patrol or civilian patriot groups like the Minuteman Project. In addition to the French riots, there's also the Australian riots with Middle Eastern youths in Sydney.

2005 Cronulla riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lebanese Muslim youths actually harassed Australian women for wearing bikinis on the beach!!!! WTF????!!!!?!?!?!!?!?!?

Yes, I'm proud of my Asian heritage, but I also respect, love and embrace American culture.

I'm proud to be of Chinese the descent my friends are proud to be of Italian, Scottish, Irish, English, Jewish, Greek or German descent. My main identity is with America though. Honest to God, I know I want to embrace all the LEGAL immigrants who come here from all over the world, but they have to want to be embraced.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 9,686,045 times
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STILL no answers to my questions. Just some general hand waving with hemming and hawing about illegal immigrants, but that wasn't the OP's point.

The OP proposed a "culture test" for ALL AMERICANS. I think this is lunacy and a giant step toward a totalitarianism. I believe the suggestion is about as UN-AMERICAN as they come. No one has yet come up with a convincing argument to change my mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
And an immigrant who plans to remain here should certainly want to have an understanding of what makes Americans tick. How is he going to fit in in the workplace if he never heard of Vegas or American Idol? What's the point in moving to a country and staying socially isolated and stuck in your own ethnic enclave?
Good Lord! American Idol and Las Vegas casinos make America tick?!! Are you serious?!!

Huh. I always thought that the constitution, bill of rights, individual liberties, and the history of our great democracy made the USA tick. Guess I've been living in a different America than the anti-immigration crowd.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:23 AM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
6,525 posts, read 11,614,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
STILL no answers to my questions. Just some general hand waving with hemming and hawing about illegal immigrants, but that wasn't the OP's point.

The OP proposed a "culture test" for ALL AMERICANS. I think this is lunacy and a giant step toward a totalitarianism. I believe the suggestion is about as UN-AMERICAN as they come. No one has yet come up with a convincing argument to change my mind.



Good Lord! American Idol and Las Vegas casinos make America tick?!! Are you serious?!!

Huh. I always thought that the constitution, bill of rights, individual liberties, and the history of our great democracy made the USA tick. Guess I've been living in a different America than the anti-immigration crowd.
No, I said this test was supposed to be on the CITIZENSHIP TEST for FOREIGNERS trying to get US Citizenship!

Plus there's nothing wrong with Vegas, American Idol, Nashville, crabcakes, barbecue, the Preakness, or ROute 66.
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:57 AM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,058,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
STILL no answers to my questions.
I guess you missed my answer: I agree that a culture-based test would be silly...
Quote:
Just some general hand waving with hemming and hawing about illegal immigrants, but that wasn't the OP's point.

The OP proposed a "culture test" for ALL AMERICANS. I think this is lunacy and a giant step toward a totalitarianism. I believe the suggestion is about as UN-AMERICAN as they come. No one has yet come up with a convincing argument to change my mind.
Step back for a moment. Calm down. That's better.

The point of the OP is culture, not a test.

Do you know what is un-American? The Spanish language.

Quote:
Good Lord! American Idol and Las Vegas casinos make America tick?!! Are you serious?!!

Huh. I always thought that the constitution, bill of rights, individual liberties, and the history of our great democracy made the USA tick. Guess I've been living in a different America than the anti-immigration crowd.
Do you think culture is limited to our legal system? That would be a very shortsighted view. Have you ever heard the phrase, "It's as American as baseball, mom and apple pie?"

(Please get it right: anti- ILLEGAL immigration. You bleeding hearts are so easy to spot.)
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Old 02-28-2008, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 9,686,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapin2212 View Post
No, I said this test was supposed to be on the CITIZENSHIP TEST for FOREIGNERS trying to get US Citizenship!
No you didn't. You "sugget[ed] that any citizen should be able to pass at least 50 or 60%" see below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapin2212 View Post
I'd suggest that any citizen should be able to pass at least 50 or 60% of the following questions....note this isn't asking a lot, only 50%.
...
REQUIRED QUESTION - LOYALTY TEST

If Team USA plays your home country in the Olympics who will you cheer for?

Will you be willing to take up arms on behalf of the United States against your home country? THESE TWO QUETSIONS I BELIEVE MUST>>>>>>>MUST>>>>>MUST>>>>>be asked of anyone trying to be a citizen.
Only at the end did you suggest that immigrants who desire to become citizens must pass a loyalty test of two questions about the Olympics and going to war.
Quote:
Plus there's nothing wrong with Vegas, American Idol, Nashville, crabcakes, barbecue, the Preakness, or ROute 66.
That is correct. There is nothing wrong with it, but it is the pop froth on top of the strong undercurrent of true ideals and institutions that make up this nation. Anti-immigration agitation also falls into the category of pop froth. It rises and ebbs with the same transient nature of entertainment fads, though it involves fewer people and causes less of a lasting impact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
I guess you missed my answer: I agree that a culture-based test would be silly...
I'm glad we agree that we both strongly disagree with the OP.
Quote:
The point of the OP is culture, not a test.
The OP, as demonstrated above, wants a cultural test, possibly for all citizens, at least for all immigrants, to ensure that they "properly assimilate" I gather.
Quote:
Do you know what is un-American? The Spanish language.
Many words in the lexicon have their basis in the Spanish language. Is Latin also un-American? Should we call the DHS down upon traditional Catholic masses? Are all languages except English un-American? How is the Spanish language un-American? Are other European languages equally un-American? What about Cantonese? Is my patriotism somehow diluted by blond hair blue eyes and being able to speak German? Or perhaps I betray my country a little bit every time I converse in Mandarin? Would you care to explain your reasoning?

What language(s) would you require me to never speak to be as true a champion of our nation's founding principle of personal liberty as you?

Quote:
Do you think culture is limited to our legal system? That would be a very shortsighted view. Have you ever heard the phrase, "It's as American as baseball, mom and apple pie?"
No, I do not think culture is limited to the legal system. Yes, I have heard that phrase. However, I do not see your point. I do not know of a single living US Citizen to whom it could be applied, nor do I believe that it should somehow apply to immigrants. "It's as American as baseball, mom, and George W. Bush.", "It's as American as baseball, mom, and Hillary Clinton", "It's as American as baseball, mom, and Vladmir Newieadomski." Doesn't really work in any case.

Traditional "American Culture" ala Norman Rockwell is all well and good. I enjoy baseball games, hotdogs, and fireworks set off to big-brass-band music on the Fourth of July as much as the next person. That should does not preclude me from also enjoying lively salsa on Cinco De Mayo or prevent me from setting off a string of firecrackers and burning paper money and incense on the Chinese New Year. I don't begrudge you any American holiday, celebration, or tradition. Nor do I begrudge immigrants theirs, so long as they are compliant with our system of values as embodied by our laws and government. Why in the world would you?

I do agree with the OP that some level of assimilation is necessary for people to live a fulfilling life, integrate with society, and carry out their obligations as a US citizen. It is helpful to write/read/understand/speak English. It is fun to go to sporting events. It is relaxing to watch reality television in moderation among countless other "American" past-times and interests. Do I think that US citizens or legal residents wishing to naturalize should be REQUIRED to participate in all-or-any of these components of present-day culture? Absolutely not. That is as un-American an idea as I have ever heard espoused.
Quote:
(Please get it right: anti- ILLEGAL immigration. You bleeding hearts are so easy to spot.)
This entire topic has nothing to do with ILLEGAL immigration. There's a reason illegal immigrants are called "undocumented." They take no tests, fill out no forms, and enjoy few of the protections offered to legal residents and citizens.

This entire topic is dedicated to testing the "cultural awareness" of Green Card holders prior to their naturalization and placing unconstitutional, anti-liberty, and un-American requirments on these legal immigrants. That clearly stems from anti-immigrant sentiments. I have "g[o]t it right".
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Old 02-28-2008, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
No you didn't. You "sugget[ed] that any citizen should be able to pass at least 50 or 60%" see below:

Only at the end did you suggest that immigrants who desire to become citizens must pass a loyalty test of two questions about the Olympics and going to war.

That is correct. There is nothing wrong with it, but it is the pop froth on top of the strong undercurrent of true ideals and institutions that make up this nation. Anti-immigration agitation also falls into the category of pop froth. It rises and ebbs with the same transient nature of entertainment fads, though it involves fewer people and causes less of a lasting impact.

This entire topic has nothing to do with ILLEGAL immigration. There's a reason illegal immigrants are called "undocumented." They take no tests, fill out no forms, and enjoy few of the protections offered to legal residents and citizens.

This entire topic is dedicated to testing the "cultural awareness" of Green Card holders prior to their naturalization and placing unconstitutional, anti-liberty, and un-American requirments on these legal immigrants. That clearly stems from anti-immigrant sentiments. I have "g[o]t it right".

'Undocumented' is a PC term for illegal immigrant-------read that a flagrant lawbreaker.
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Old 02-28-2008, 07:24 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
6,525 posts, read 11,614,071 times
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ArizonaBear, so true what the liberal media does and sugarcoats things.

An illegal becomes an "undocumented worker"....hey this Cuban politician in Florida even said that "alien" is offensive because it makes them seem like outsiders and b/c the same word is used to describe fictional beings who, you know, fly UFOs....

Just like how a terrorist becomes a "militant" or an "insurgent".
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