Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Disagree. The term "pro-illegal" is descriptive. Most here know what it means. Attempting to parse a simple, common term is "...just [obfuscating] the discussion."
I have to disagree. Using a term such as “pro-illegal” is not descriptive as much as the examples you provided below. The examples are more specific.
For example, do all Republicans follow the same ideas for the economy, national defense, socials issues? What about Democrats for that matter? No they don’t, that’s why there are more terms added such as fiscal conservative, social liberal, etc… to be descriptive.
I seem to hear the term “pro-illegal” in a context to describe someone who doesn’t agree completely with the “anti-illegal” poster. But the fact is they are not supporters of illegal-immigrants. Many oppose illegal immigration but realized that the simple solutions are no longer easy to accomplish. Plus many oppose the anti-illegal posters who like to generalize illegals, or are quick to claim crimes are commited by illegals, or exagerate claims about illegals with no proof what so ever.
I don’t support illegal immigration, but I’m opposed to lies and exagerrations to support a case against them. I also don’t see easy solutions for getting rid of 12-20 million people with a government that is so compartmentalized that nothing is done effeciently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer
Amnesty/no amnesty; sounds simple enough.
Open borders/border control; again, nothing complicated about that at all.
These are not similar to “anti-illegal” versus “pro-illegal”, they are specific and not generalized.
I have to disagree. Using a term such as “pro-illegal” is not descriptive as much as the examples you provided below. The examples are more specific.
For example, do all Republicans follow the same ideas for the economy, national defense, socials issues? What about Democrats for that matter? No they don’t, that’s why there are more terms added such as fiscal conservative, social liberal, etc… to be descriptive.
I seem to hear the term “pro-illegal” in a context to describe someone who doesn’t agree completely with the “anti-illegal” poster. But the fact is they are not supporters of illegal-immigrants. Many oppose illegal immigration but realized that the simple solutions are no longer easy to accomplish. Plus many oppose the anti-illegal posters who like to generalize illegals, or are quick to claim crimes are commited by illegals, or exagerate claims about illegals with no proof what so ever.
I don’t support illegal immigration, but I’m opposed to lies and exagerrations to support a case against them. I also don’t see easy solutions for getting rid of 12-20 million people with a government that is so compartmentalized that nothing is done effeciently.
These are not similar to “anti-illegal” versus “pro-illegal”, they are specific and not generalized.
Well said. They also call anyone who doesn't agree totally on what to do with illegal immigrants here open borders. Maybe they should take the plank from their eyes first before taking the speck from their opponent's eyes.
Last edited by blacknight04; 02-28-2008 at 03:38 PM..
The pro-illegal side calls anyone who is anti- illegal immigration a bigot.
No doubt, some are. However, the rhetoric I see from the pro-illegal side is littered with terms such as "white trash, redneck, BillyRayBob, uneducated hick, low-class hillbilly, etc., etc."
Who exactly are the bigots in this debate?
I don't think it's bigotry to acknowledge the incredible ignorance represented by people in this category ("white trash, redneck, BillyRayBob, uneducated hick, low class hillbilly..."). These people exhibit beliefs and prejudices that are severely detrimental to this society. This is traditionally and historically been the case. I don't consider it bigotry to look down on them, just an acknowledgement of what they are. Unfortunately, this country appears bottom-heavy with such people as the election of Bush showed.
About illegal immigrants, one must ask what circumstances drive them to come here, breaking the law in doing so, instead of staying in their countries. Why condemn them because they are desperate for a better life for their kids, their aging parents, themselves? Obviously, they perceive this country as being the land of "liberty, freedom, and justice for all" or the "land of opportunity" or "land of liberty." This country puts itself out there to the world as an open society, welcoming to all who desire its ways, and it is up to this country to help facilitate that and make accomodations so that people can assimilate and become productive members of society and in a position to maximize their individual potential here to benefit the international community.
I don't think it's bigotry to acknowledge the incredible ignorance represented by people in this category ("white trash, redneck, BillyRayBob, uneducated hick, low class hillbilly..."). These people exhibit beliefs and prejudices that are severely detrimental to this society. This is traditionally and historically been the case. I don't consider it bigotry to look down on them, just an acknowledgement of what they are. Unfortunately, this country appears bottom-heavy with such people as the election of Bush showed.
About illegal immigrants, one must ask what circumstances drive them to come here, breaking the law in doing so, instead of staying in their countries. Why condemn them because they are desperate for a better life for their kids, their aging parents, themselves? Obviously, they perceive this country as being the land of "liberty, freedom, and justice for all" or the "land of opportunity" or "land of liberty." This country puts itself out there to the world as an open society, welcoming to all who desire its ways, and it is up to this country to help facilitate that and make accomodations so that people can assimilate and become productive members of society and in a position to maximize their individual potential here to benefit the international community.
"these people"? Who indeed is the one who is exhibiting prejudice?
By your response, is it fair to conclude that you believe that those opposed to the illegal invasion of our nation are one of "these people"?
I don't think it's bigotry to acknowledge the incredible ignorance represented by people in this category ("white trash, redneck, BillyRayBob, uneducated hick, low class hillbilly..."). These people exhibit beliefs and prejudices that are severely detrimental to this society. This is traditionally and historically been the case. I don't consider it bigotry to look down on them, just an acknowledgement of what they are. Unfortunately, this country appears bottom-heavy with such people as the election of Bush showed.
About illegal immigrants, one must ask what circumstances drive them to come here, breaking the law in doing so, instead of staying in their countries. Why condemn them because they are desperate for a better life for their kids, their aging parents, themselves? Obviously, they perceive this country as being the land of "liberty, freedom, and justice for all" or the "land of opportunity" or "land of liberty." This country puts itself out there to the world as an open society, welcoming to all who desire its ways, and it is up to this country to help facilitate that and make accomodations so that people can assimilate and become productive members of society and in a position to maximize their individual potential here to benefit the international community.
Using Mexico as our guinea pig: by most Third World standards; that country is not poor-------its per capita income is over $13K a year.
That Mx has a huge gap between rich and poor is not our problem------the 'peons' need to fight for their rights against their own government.
The pro-illegal side calls anyone who is anti- illegal immigration a bigot.
No doubt, some are. However, the rhetoric I see from the pro-illegal side is littered with terms such as "white trash, redneck, BillyRayBob, uneducated hick, low-class hillbilly, etc., etc."
Who exactly are the bigots in this debate?
Right you are. It seems to be a favorite way for bleeding hearts to get reasonable thinking human beings to shut up, that is accusing them of being racist. But we are on to them. We will not let them stop us from addressing the injustice. There's nothing racist about enforcing the law. The law is for everyone, not just a few chosen based on race.
Well said. They also call anyone who doesn't agree totally on what to do with illegal immigrants here open borders. Maybe they should take the plank from their eyes first before taking the speck from their opponent's eyes.
If the truth were known, many of us are NOT FOR illegal immigration, but are sick and tired of the total lack of humanity towards these people. If they don't like being called bigots then they should not talk like bigots, it does nothing to make people want to listen to your issues.
Arizona Bear you are great about telling Mexicans "the peons need to fight for their rights against their own goverment. You have never been able to say what rights you achieved fighting for YOUR rights against this (your) goverment. With the different protests in this country, which ones were successful????
Maybe you might want to put your money where your mouth is, just a thought
If the truth were known, many of us are NOT FOR illegal immigration, but are sick and tired of the total lack of humanity towards these people. If they don't like being called bigots then they should not talk like bigots, it does nothing to make people want to listen to your issues.
Arizona Bear you are great about telling Mexicans "the peons need to fight for their rights against their own goverment. You have never been able to say what rights you achieved fighting for YOUR rights against this (your) goverment. With the different protests in this country, which ones were successful????
Maybe you might want to put your money where your mouth is, just a thought
Please try not to duck the issue: we are discussing what needs to be done to secure our nation against invaders-------not the congenital problems of Mexico.
We owe them nothing.
Besides: the anti illegal immigrant laws are multiplying due in part to those fools flying the Mexican flag at their asinine illegal immigrants 'rights' protests 2 years ago.
Arizona Bear you are great about telling Mexicans "the peons need to fight for their rights against their own goverment. You have never been able to say what rights you achieved fighting for YOUR rights against this (your) goverment. With the different protests in this country, which ones were successful????
Maybe you might want to put your money where your mouth is, just a thought
Please try not to duck the issue: we are discussing what needs to be done to secure our nation against invaders-------not the congenital problems of Mexico.
We owe them nothing.
Besides: the anti illegal immigrant laws are multiplying due in part to those fools flying the Mexican flag at their asinine illegal immigrants 'rights' protests 2 years ago.
I call that being successful.
You just cannot answer the question can you? Have you participated in protests about Iraq? Have you protested about the economy? Have you protested about gas prices?
I did not think so, good try though.
And the name of this thread is Bigotry, so I am on topic.
Last edited by sassyone; 02-29-2008 at 05:31 PM..
Reason: adding to
If the truth were known, many of us are NOT FOR illegal immigration, but are sick and tired of the total lack of humanity towards these people. If they don't like being called bigots then they should not talk like bigots, it does nothing to make people want to listen to your issues.
Arizona Bear you are great about telling Mexicans "the peons need to fight for their rights against their own goverment. You have never been able to say what rights you achieved fighting for YOUR rights against this (your) goverment. With the different protests in this country, which ones were successful????
Maybe you might want to put your money where your mouth is, just a thought
Personally, I am sick and tired of the total lack of humanity toward the actual American citizens and legal immigrants who reside in our country. If you don't like being called out for any and all of your pro-illegal rants then don't talk like one. It does nothing at all to make us listen to you and the others.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
They also call anyone who doesn't agree totally on what to do with illegal immigrants here open borders. Maybe they should take the plank from their eyes first before taking the speck from their opponent's eyes.
