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Old 03-01-2008, 02:36 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,897,540 times
Reputation: 22174

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAZER PROPHET View Post
[SIZE=2]This may have all been said before, but here’s my personal, albeit naïve, view on immigration.

Let’s take a Mexican. Let’s call him Paco. So here’s Paco sitting in Mexico with a wife and two kids. No work. Little food. Pressure to get into drugs. Corrupt government.

Paco wants a better life for his wife & kids. But where can he go? The USA. So they lose everything they have to a ‘coyote’ and manage to get here after a few failed attempts.

Paco gets a job. With the help of activists (I used to work with, but I wasn’t one of them) he learns how to get various documents and ‘work’ the system. He & his family work hard. Child labor is alive & well for Mexicans (I’ve seen it all too often). But they make a substantially better living doing work others will not do.

Now, before I go on, I do realize that not all the illegals from Mexico are as pure as Tibetan snow. I get that. But percentage wise, they are more so than we are.

Why can’t we take the money we’re spending on trying to keep illegals out and use it to make it easier to get them here, registering them so we can weed out the bad ones more so, helping them gain tax-paying citizenship status, helping them learn to speak English… rather than beating them down?
Rather than the activists teaching them to cheat the systems, why not indoctrinate them into our system and make them responsible & accountable?

Am I really wrong here? I really don’t think so.

[/SIZE]
Okay -- and now there's Pedro of Guatemala, and Ravi of India and Pui of China and on and on and on -- all poor people who want more money if they work.

Is it reasonable to expect that Americans can take in every last Mexican just because Mexicans are unwilling to demand reforms of their own country? And then wouldn't that be racist -- to take in 100% of Mexico but not 100% of Haiti, or China, or Cambodia, or Zimbabwe?

No one is keeping Mexicans from learning English -- they don't learn English because they lack the motivation to do so.

And how are you going to get taxes out of them when they have so many kids and earn so little pay? Filing with the IRS only gets them a nice hefty EITC check. Very few Mexicans pay taxes because even if they've stolen a social security number, they've caught onto the idea of claiming many deductions so that no FICA is taken out.

Mexicans aren't coming here because they want to become Americans, they want to stay Mexican -- they don't want to learn English (or they would already be doing so), they don't want to learn our holidays and traditions because they want to keep their own. They are coming only for the money. They want to fly their own flag, speak their own language.
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Old 03-01-2008, 05:43 AM
 
Location: NWArkansas/Seattle
395 posts, read 1,231,730 times
Reputation: 159
I don't mind immigrants...I do mind that they don't bother to speak English.
I don't know how many times I have picked up a box of cereal or something at the market...just to realize I am reading spanish! So I am constantly turning the box around to read the english.
I drives me nuts!
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Old 03-01-2008, 06:03 AM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,086,172 times
Reputation: 2049
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAZER PROPHET View Post
So here’s Paco sitting in Mexico with a wife and two kids. No work. Little food.
Your argument fails right here. Paco is not without a job. His family isn't starving. He comes here because he can make several times what he makes in Mexico, at the job he leaves.
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Old 03-01-2008, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,696,242 times
Reputation: 3785
OK: let me toss my hat into the ring.

If we were discussing one million or fewer illegal immigrants/children (Mexican, Norwegian, Chinese, etc); I can understand cutting them some slack-------but, upwards of 7 million of 'em with their minor age Anchor Babies-------no way!
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Old 03-01-2008, 06:58 AM
 
226 posts, read 269,445 times
Reputation: 93
What makes them all think that America has to help them? and there are many of them that have been here a very long time and have never had the urge to learn english. They come here and complain when spoken to in english. I don't have to learn spanish, I am an American born citizen as well as all of my family members and english is the American language. They all come here with the notion that we will provide their food, housing etc.
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Old 03-01-2008, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,848,271 times
Reputation: 3028
Where do we draw the line? Are we, as a nation, responsible for the impoverished of the entire world, or just Mexico? Should Mexico receive preferential treatment by virtue of its proximity to the US? As mentioned; if we are truly humanitarian, how do we exclude millions of people living in abject poverty throughout the world, in favor of Mexicans who come here not out of desperation –- rather, to augment their wages? Many are saving money from wages received in the U.S. to build homes or start businesses in Mexico. This is certainly not my idea of abject poverty.

Why should we be responsible for millions of people who have no problem ‘demanding’ from the U.S. taxpayer – yet, refuse to make demands from their own government? They have the audacity to march in OUR streets – yet, refuse to march in the streets of their countries of origin to exact change. Furthermore, they have a wanton disregard for the adverse effect their illegal employment has on the wages of Americans. IMO, this is the epitome of narcissism –- all for me -– to hell with the rest.

I do not lack compassion. However, we have millions of ‘legal’ citizens living in poverty, and children going to bed hungry. Where is the compassion for them? A nation that will not secure its borders, cannot sustain its sovereignty.

Illegal aliens have taken our kindness for weakness. They spit in our faces with arrogance and a sense of entitlement – expect us to acquiesce to their demands, and label us racists and xenophobes because we object.
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Old 03-01-2008, 08:15 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 12,955,705 times
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Benicar's first paragraph summed up what my 1st paragraph was going to be.

If we are supposed to allow immigrants in because of hardships, Mexicans should not be allowed because there are many countries where their people are a lot worse off than them.

If I , as an individual, felt the need to help out a family that was impoverished by doing special favors-----------I would look for the family that needed it the most in my "community"

I certainly wouldn't do it automatically for a family just cuz they were my neighbor when a "few doors down" there are families in much worse shape .
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Old 03-01-2008, 09:13 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,642,976 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Where do we draw the line? Are we, as a nation, responsible for the impoverished of the entire world, or just Mexico? Should Mexico receive preferential treatment by virtue of its proximity to the US? As mentioned; if we are truly humanitarian, how do we exclude millions of people living in abject poverty throughout the world, in favor of Mexicans who come here not out of desperation –- rather, to augment their wages? Many are saving money from wages received in the U.S. to build homes or start businesses in Mexico. This is certainly not my idea of abject poverty.

Why should we be responsible for millions of people who have no problem ‘demanding’ from the U.S. taxpayer – yet, refuse to make demands from their own government? They have the audacity to march in OUR streets – yet, refuse to march in the streets of their countries of origin to exact change. Furthermore, they have a wanton disregard for the adverse effect their illegal employment has on the wages of Americans. IMO, this is the epitome of narcissism –- all for me -– to hell with the rest.

I do not lack compassion. However, we have millions of ‘legal’ citizens living in poverty, and children going to bed hungry. Where is the compassion for them? A nation that will not secure its borders, cannot sustain its sovereignty.

Illegal aliens have taken our kindness for weakness. They spit in our faces with arrogance and a sense of entitlement – expect us to acquiesce to their demands, and label us racists and xenophobes because we object.
Well-stated. This post will undoubtedly anger many people, but that's because people get angry when they can't make an intelligent rebuttal to an argument. And this post says it all. Virtually ALL illegal activist groups now operating, have ONE objective in mind, and it's not reducing world poverty, and it's not providing compassion for hungry people. It's promoting the interests, and expanding the rights, of Mexicans (and ONLY Mexicans), to enter the US, work here, and to stay here....WITHOUT any penalties, WITHOUT anything being required of them, and WITHOUT any need or desire to assimilate to this nation's culture......and NOTHING Else. It's as one-sided and narrowly-focused as any movement ever could be. And it has nothing to do with 'fairness', or 'compassion', or relieving 'hunger'. Those are all just 'smoke screens'. It's really nothing more than a 'trade association' promoting the business interests of its members to the detriment of its 'competition' (The US population), and that's all....

Mexico is NOT a poor nation at all...it's just a nation which HAPPENS to have an "ace in the hole", and that is, a long, poorly-patrolled land border with the world's (up to now) leading economy. This provides Mexico with a wonderful opportunity (one that's denied to MOST truly poor nations) to deal with its poverty and with its frustrated, marginalized population by simply "dumping" them on its neighbor, rather than "fixing" them. In the language of a "12-Step Program", Mexico would be called the "offender", and the US would be called "the Enabler"...
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Old 03-01-2008, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,696,242 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Well-stated. This post will undoubtedly anger many people, but that's because people get angry when they can't make an intelligent rebuttal to an argument. And this post says it all. Virtually ALL illegal activist groups now operating, have ONE objective in mind, and it's not reducing world poverty, and it's not providing compassion for hungry people. It's promoting the interests, and expanding the rights, of Mexicans (and ONLY Mexicans), to enter the US, work here, and to stay here....WITHOUT any penalties, WITHOUT anything being required of them, and WITHOUT any need or desire to assimilate to this nation's culture......and NOTHING Else. It's as one-sided and narrowly-focused as any movement ever could be. And it has nothing to do with 'fairness', or 'compassion', or relieving 'hunger'. Those are all just 'smoke screens'. It's really nothing more than a 'trade association' promoting the business interests of its members to the detriment of its 'competition' (The US population), and that's all....

Mexico is NOT a poor nation at all...it's just a nation which HAPPENS to have an "ace in the hole", and that is, a long, poorly-patrolled land border with the world's (up to now) leading economy. This provides Mexico with a wonderful opportunity (one that's denied to MOST truly poor nations) to deal with its poverty and with its frustrated, marginalized population by simply "dumping" them on its neighbor, rather than "fixing" them. In the language of a "12-Step Program", Mexico would be called the "offender", and the US would be called "the Enabler"...
Again; macmeal: well stated.

Addendum: those folks from Mexico who immigrated legally to the USA are also uber offended at the illegals.
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Old 03-01-2008, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Where there is too much snow!
6,076 posts, read 10,761,092 times
Reputation: 2923
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Well-stated. This post will undoubtedly anger many people, but that's because people get angry when they can't make an intelligent rebuttal to an argument. And this post says it all. Virtually ALL illegal activist groups now operating, have ONE objective in mind, and it's not reducing world poverty, and it's not providing compassion for hungry people. It's promoting the interests, and expanding the rights, of Mexicans (and ONLY Mexicans), to enter the US, work here, and to stay here....WITHOUT any penalties, WITHOUT anything being required of them, and WITHOUT any need or desire to assimilate to this nation's culture......and NOTHING Else. It's as one-sided and narrowly-focused as any movement ever could be. And it has nothing to do with 'fairness', or 'compassion', or relieving 'hunger'. Those are all just 'smoke screens'. It's really nothing more than a 'trade association' promoting the business interests of its members to the detriment of its 'competition' (The US population), and that's all....

Mexico is NOT a poor nation at all...it's just a nation which HAPPENS to have an "ace in the hole", and that is, a long, poorly-patrolled land border with the world's (up to now) leading economy. This provides Mexico with a wonderful opportunity (one that's denied to MOST truly poor nations) to deal with its poverty and with its frustrated, marginalized population by simply "dumping" them on its neighbor, rather than "fixing" them. In the language of a "12-Step Program", Mexico would be called the "offender", and the US would be called "the Enabler"...
Now thats something I can agree with, good job macmeal.
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