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Old 03-31-2008, 02:14 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,633,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Simple answer: Greed. If an employer can hire someone for $5/hr and pay no benefits, they will make a greater profit than if they hired someone for $8/hr with benefits.
Pretty simple and straightforward to ME....and also a good definition of the appeal of illegal workers to employers. Obviously, illegals are 'desirable' because they are in a precarious situation. They can't complain---they can't demand higher wages---and they can't really do much of ANYTHING but 'take it'...because they're illegal. If they ever DID 'become legal', they'd gain 'power' and clout....at which time, they'd immediately lose much of their appeal to unscrupulous employers.

Illegal aliens are obviously tempting to hire, because they're exploitable. Slaves are even MORE tempting...you don't have to pay THEM at ALL. But slaves are now pretty well "out" as a labor source. Illegals are the 'next best thing' to slaves----and they're still "in"--at least for now.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Denver
9,067 posts, read 15,499,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Simple answer: Greed. If an employer can hire someone for $5/hr and pay no benefits, they will make a greater profit than if they hired someone for $8/hr with benefits.
Could it be we have this scenario?

1) We have demand for strawberry harvesters
2) No Americans lining up to be a strawberry harvester
3) Foreign workers want to come here to be a strawberry harvester
4) Foreign workers cannot get a visa to work legally
5) Foreign worker comes in illegally and hired by strawberry harvester

Do you think if we allowed more legal immigration employers would still hire illegals knowing they could be fined?
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:19 PM
 
Location: California
1,268 posts, read 820,942 times
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Lets say we kick all illegals out who do all the fruit picking and what not. We're still going to get migrant laborers here because they can still do it cheaper. The fruit/vegetables get picked either way.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Denver
9,067 posts, read 15,499,585 times
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Wrong thread.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:33 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,633,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Could it be we have this scenario?

1) We have demand for strawberry harvesters
2) No Americans lining up to be a strawberry harvester
3) Foreign workers want to come here to be a strawberry harvester
4) Foreign workers cannot get a visa to work legally
5) Foreign worker comes in illegally and hired by strawberry harvester

Do you think if we allowed more legal immigration employers would still hire illegals knowing they could be fined?
Sounds good--but what was wrong with the old 'bracero' program?

1) Strawberry grower needs pickers..
2) Local pickers unavailable
3) Grower applies for Mexican workers from Mexico. This is sanctioned by BOTH governments..
4) Workers in Mexico 'sign on' for a specified period. They enter the US legally. They are housed and 'taken care of' and protected from abuses by the grower.
5)Harvest ends. Pickers are 'paid off', and return to Mexico with LOTS of money. Those who WANT TO, can apply for ANOTHER 'turn' with the same grower, or ANOTHER one. If there's work available, they may stay on---if not, they go home, to await the next 'call'.

NOBODY gets abused, everyone gets paid fairly, and nobody feels resentful because they can't STAY here. They come IN knowing it's a temporary job, enabling them to make a lot of money, but that's all.

This goes on all over the world. Even AMERICANS occasionally take off to make 'big bucks' (for example, building the Alaska Pipeline---or the Alaska crab-fishing industry), knowing it's a temporary job, to make fast money, but not necessarily to 'live there' permanently. You make your money, and you go home. If you LIKE it, you may go again...if NOT, you're still money ahead. No 'false hopes', no 'anger', no frustration.

If you're REALLY trying to fill jobs, this makes sense. If not, then I suspect there's more going on than just filling labor shortages...
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Denver
9,067 posts, read 15,499,585 times
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No issue with that macmeal.

I think the problem is that there are not enough Visas for this kind of work and we have growing number of Americans against immigration, so I don't expect we will see that number increasing. (BTW my mom came here on a temporary working Visa back in the 70's).

There is more demand for foreign workers now, simply because Americans don't apply for these jobs anymore (deny it if you want).

It is far easier to come here and work illegally now, home base for illegals has been setup, companies are sponsoring it.
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Old 03-31-2008, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,834,008 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
No issue with that macmeal.

I think the problem is that there are not enough Visas for this kind of work and we have growing number of Americans against immigration, so I don't expect we will see that number increasing. (BTW my mom came here on a temporary working Visa back in the 70's).

There is more demand for foreign workers now, simply because Americans don't apply for these jobs anymore (deny it if you want).

It is far easier to come here and work illegally now, home base for illegals has been setup, companies are sponsoring it.

If the greedy employers had their druthers, there would be employment for very few legal workers. If they could, they would legalize slavery -- think of the fortunes to be amassed if they could.
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Old 03-31-2008, 03:44 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,633,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
No issue with that macmeal.

There is more demand for foreign workers now, simply because Americans don't apply for these jobs anymore (deny it if you want).

.
There's no denying that it would be VERY difficult to find willing fruit pickers by picking up teenagers at the local mall-- OR by demanding that able-bodied welfare or "unemployment" recipients take such jobs, in order to keep their benefits. It would take an entire 'societal change' to get people to "want" these jobs....no question about that at all (For people who say "Americans used to do these jobs", I always say, "yes they DID...but I doubt if their adult KIDS would be interested").

Still, I maintain that it would be entirely possible, with the 'bracero' program, to "staff" these jobs (and let the unwilling Americans 'gripe' all they want, since THEY'D be getting 'first crack' at the positions), WITHOUT actually moving people into the country illegally, giving them the false impression that by "sneaking in", they are somehow entitled to the right to stay on indefinitely. This is a GUARANTEED recipe for causing resentment.....the "locals' resenting the massive disruption caused by thousands of illegal 'newcomers', and the 'newcomers' resentful because they THINK they ought to be able to stay, without doing it the 'legal' way. EVERYBODY gets mad, except the 'rich' employers, and the 'rich' Mexican upper-classes, who get to 'export' their poverty, so WE have to deal with it.
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Old 03-31-2008, 03:53 PM
 
122 posts, read 317,717 times
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come to Bakersfield california where i live and am moving from and u will see what illegal immigration looks like. when those super friendly field workers are not picking whatever they collect free food, free medical and all the other stuff that comes with being low income. WE pay for THEM being low income. NOT to mention the trashcans they never use, the music from their cars they think we want to hear and the KIDS in schools that speak no english and don't want to learn it because everybody else does not speak it. Just write off california now and let them deal with the state. You really think if we ever went to mexico they would greet us with open arms...pulease. they make an effort not to make an effort, i came here and sopke zero english in 84 and now people cannot even tell that it's not my first language. Assimilation is what is missing here. [moderator cut: off topic]

Last edited by madicarus2000; 03-31-2008 at 05:55 PM.. Reason: off topic comments.
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Old 03-31-2008, 03:56 PM
 
122 posts, read 317,717 times
Reputation: 56
oh and also we should all look into organic fruits and produce that has a purpose not just mass quantity maybe then we would not need so many workers to pick stuff that is not even fit to eat...
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