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The issue is not making excuses to learn the language, and it's a two-way street there.
The issue is, first, legal: no excuse for being a law-breaker, and it appears there is broad agreement there (except perhaps for many of the captains of corporate US and law enforcement authorities whom they heavily influence).
The issue is, second, cultural and personal: groups and individuals learn English at various speeds and to various levels depending on ability and need.
In some cases, only a rudimentary level of English is necessary to earn a living in this country. Even on a somewhat higher level, there are so-called teachers in US public schools, even those whose families have been in this country three and more generations, who do not know proper English grammar and somehow they managed to be awarded even masters degrees (I am not exaggerating).
In some cases, fluency is achievable in a matter of weeks (I learned Spanish in six weeks), in other cases it may take ten or less years (like in the case of your mother), in yet other cases a generation.
Wisely the Founding Fathers of this country laid down no constitutional laws against culture and cultural expression, except in cases of advocating violent overthrow of the constitutional order itself.
There is nothing wrong with making English the official legal language: on the contrary, it is probably the right thing in the interests of good order.
But the cultural diversity in this country, including the plethora of languages spoken and known by non-native speakers of those languages, is a source of great wealth and power politically, economically and culturally.
In the context of ever-deepening globalization, perhaps it is a good idea to participate in this wealth, instead of merely complaining, whining English only, and so potentially being left behind in such a great movement in humanity.
The US school system, instead of preparing to teach a significant proportion of the population a language like Mandarin Chinese, which may become indispensable for a wide-range of social reasons in the next generation or two, is not even capable of producing people, professing to teach others, who know proper English grammar.
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002
The issue is not making excuses to learn the language, and it's a two-way street there.
The issue is, first, legal: no excuse for being a law-breaker, and it appears there is broad agreement there (except perhaps for many of the captains of corporate US and law enforcement authorities whom they heavily influence).
The issue is, second, cultural and personal: groups and individuals learn English at various speeds and to various levels depending on ability and need.
In some cases, only a rudimentary level of English is necessary to earn a living in this country. Even on a somewhat higher level, there are so-called teachers in US public schools, even those whose families have been in this country three and more generations, who do not know proper English grammar and somehow they managed to be awarded even masters degrees (I am not exaggerating).
In some cases, fluency is achievable in a matter of weeks (I learned Spanish in six weeks), in other cases it may take ten or less years (like in the case of your mother), in yet other cases a generation.
Wisely the Founding Fathers of this country laid down no constitutional laws against culture and cultural expression, except in cases of advocating violent overthrow of the constitutional order itself.
There is nothing wrong with making English the official legal language: on the contrary, it is probably the right thing in the interests of good order.
But the cultural diversity in this country, including the plethora of languages spoken and known by non-native speakers of those languages, is a source of great wealth and power politically, economically and culturally.
In the context of ever-deepening globalization, perhaps it is a good idea to participate in this wealth, instead of merely complaining, whining English only, and so potentially being left behind in such a great movement in humanity.
The US school system, instead of preparing to teach a significant proportion of the population a language like Mandarin Chinese, which may become indispensable for a wide-range of social reasons in the next generation or two, is not even capable of producing people, professing to teach others, who know proper English grammar.
Here, Here! I was coming back to say (write) that much of learning a new language depends on the need to do so and the extent to which you have to learn. Maybe in Georgia, you HAVE to. If you're in Miami, you can get by with no English in most areas. If I went to the Ukraine, or some obscure part of the Philippines, I'd probably have to learn that dialect, but since I do not think I would learn any language well enough at this point in my life, I'll stick around here. Now, if I HAD to go somewhere else, I'd probably go where I know there will be many more around in my same situation and I'd have no need to learn the new language because we would end up establishing our own "little" -name a city or country-. That's Little Havana in Miami, Little Haiti, Little Italy, Chinatown, Little Hadassah, in NYC for instance. People are creatures of habit and we like to feel comfortable so we try to look and migrate to where we can do that. Or I could move to Amish or Mormon country and have a heck of a hard time.
I think many confuse Illegal and legal Immigrant, or legal aliens. You don't have to be "illegal" to not speak English. So you could have a legal alien who doesn't speak English but will be able to rent in Cherokee county?
Cherokee County in Georgia recently pass a law making it ILLEGAL to rent to Illegals and making English the official lanugage. More and more state and county governmentS are doing this to stem the tide that take advantage of our system and run down our neighborhoods. It seems that we need more of this type of approach to deal with the Illegals who are bleeding the American dry of social services from school, hospital, and the economy. My mom came here 10 years ago at the age of 57 and did not know any English; but now, she's perfectly fine everywhere she goes speaking English. She works hard, pay taxes and recently became a citizen. I tend to cringe when people can pull off any excuses to learn the lanugage. GIVE ME A BREAK!
Great! Good for Cherokee Co!!
I agree with you. In Hazelton, PA where the mayor did just that (and also taking business licenses for employing them) they ALL LEFT! BRAVO!! They were choking the town to death and now they are ooooout of theeeerreee!! We DO need more of that. Our country cannot afford to support these people. Wish we could get that going down here.
Great! Good for Cherokee Co!!
I agree with you. In Hazelton, PA where the mayor did just that (and also taking business licenses for employing them) they ALL LEFT! BRAVO!! They were choking the town to death and now they are ooooout of theeeerreee!! We DO need more of that. Our country cannot afford to support these people. Wish we could get that going down here.
Without intervention, Florida's landscape will be an endless urban jungle by 2060, cramming an extra 9 million people into subdivisions clustered from Tampa through Daytona Beach while 17.9 million people move to the state
what languages will we have to learn. Or should I say who's ?
I have had the same experiences as ARC and therefore, I have made the same observations, as a result of those experiences. However, I live in Ft. Myers.
I do not agree with connielynreturns as we have not created the situations or conditions as described above, and I myself have resorted to just trying to stay out of certain areas due to crime stats in those neighborhoods. It isn't realistic at all to believe that one makes his or her own happiness when that involves the attitudes and resulting behaviors of other people, especially strangers. There are some really loose cannons here, and there's not a whole lot I can do about that except try to avoid it while biding my time until I can escape the madness. No place or people are perfect, but this is absolutely ridiculous!
Without intervention, Florida's landscape will be an endless urban jungle by 2060, cramming an extra 9 million people into subdivisions clustered from Tampa through Daytona Beach while 17.9 million people move to the state
what languages will we have to learn. Or should I say who's ?
ENGLISH ENGLISH ENGLISH ENGLISH ENGLISH ENGLISH dammmit! lol
You don't have to be "illegal" to not speak English.
I don't mind how it is, but going the other way wouldn't bother me too much either.
Like in New Zealand you can't apply to legally reside there without basic English skills. Maybe it's New Zealand's way of preserving "The Shire." I wonder if the native Kiwi have to know English...
I spent 5 days in Ft. Lauderdale and did a lot of walking around town, talking to locals and tourists, seeing the sites etc. I don't recall one person hearing one person speak Spanish there. I think I might have seen some bi-lingual signs.
I also visited South Beach, Miami and heard a lot of English there to. However there was a crazy looking man standing on a corner speaking loudly at everyone, or anyone who'd listen but all in Spanish. He spoke to me in Spanish too, but since I couldn't understand I politely smiled and walked away.
There are probably plenty of communities where English at least predominates. True, most of those might be the expensive areas. But they are really cool to visit even if you can't afford to live there. Lots of large boats and yachts parked behind nice homes that back onto a canal system connected to the Intercoastal Waterway as well as some pretty sweet restaurants.
Without intervention, Florida's landscape will be an endless urban jungle by 2060, cramming an extra 9 million people into subdivisions clustered from Tampa through Daytona Beach while 17.9 million people move to the state
what languages will we have to learn. Or should I say who's ?
Great point, but FL is definitely not the only one this is happening to. Besides, 2060 seems like a pretty conservative estimate by most standpoints. SoCal for example is almost there, I say give it another 20-30 years at best...
Great comments. I think the more one travels and expands their horizons, the more you get to appreciate what you have and what others have and quit finding only the negatives in life. I wish I would have learned more than 3 languages (and my 3rd is not so hot anymore due to non-use). But hispanics are a major minority and growing. I don't think it's such a bad idea to learn another language. It makes you more desirable in terms of employment opportunities to say the least. Look at Fedex, AOL, every major company you call has a "press #2 for Spanish" and IT says it in Spanish.
Now if you want to ignore that hispanics contribute a huge amount to the economy, well then I think you are not a good business person and would not survive in the business world. The fact that hispanics should learn English is a different part of the story and it would be great if you could play a subliminal message during your sleep and wake up the next morning - VOILA - speaking a different language but many don't have the need to, many don't have the capacity, many don't have the power of "youth" to pick up ANYTHING new.
There's enough new customs and gadgets to deal with when you go to unfamiliar surroundings. Just look at other forums for states that people may be interested in relocating to....the idea of just moving from one state to another, one house to another, it's overwhelming to most - fear of the unknown and I'd say it happens to 99.9% of us. These people speak English, have money, have jobs, have families. Imagine those who didn't want to come to another country where there is NOTHING familiar? You know, it AIN'T easy!
I am not surprised to see that this first comment came from a Canadian person. The world needs to acknowledge Canadian People are one of the smartest people on earth. Thank you Sr. for such a powerful comment. Such a thought can only come from someone who is used to deal with a multicultural environment and someone who actually grows from the benefits of traveling and getting to know other cultures. Americans are not ready for that outstanding state of mind yet. For them, what they have here in the country represents the world and many of them have no idea how many continents the world have, which is a shame being such a powerful country as it has been claimed.
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I wonder if the native Kiwi have to know English... 
