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Old 04-01-2017, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
9,289 posts, read 8,407,187 times
Reputation: 5304

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post

I'd like to see illegal immigration stopped and our population growth to stabilize.
If we had less people to take care of we would need less money to do so.
That's not the way it works. You have to have more people of working age than retirees or you get economic collapse. This is why Greece collapsed.

The simple fact is that American women aren't having enough children, the only reason we haven't had an issue before is because of immigration. The fact is that immigration has prevented an economic collapse.

Fertility Rates Keep Dropping, And It's Going To Hit The Economy Hard | Zero Hedge

There is a short term benefit with lower birth rates, which is what we would expect at the beginning of the Donald Trump lower immigration era, but long term, as those babies become men and women and enter the labor pool, there is a looming economic collapse as older citizens cannot be supported by a much smaller population of working people.

It's kind of "rob Peter to pay Paul" situation. Eventually you're going to have to pay the piper.


If you really want to make America great and make it back to its former days, why don't we return to the "good ole days" when immigration was a big component of our growth. That has always been the "American way".
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:11 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
That's not the way it works. You have to have more people of working age than retirees or you get economic collapse. This is why Greece collapsed.

The simple fact is that American women aren't having enough children, the only reason we haven't had an issue before is because of immigration. The fact is that immigration has prevented an economic collapse.

Fertility Rates Keep Dropping, And It's Going To Hit The Economy Hard | Zero Hedge

There is a short term benefit with lower birth rates, which is what we would expect at the beginning of the Donald Trump lower immigration era, but long term, as those babies become men and women and enter the labor pool, there is a looming economic collapse as older citizens cannot be supported by a much smaller population of working people.

It's kind of "rob Peter to pay Paul" situation. Eventually you're going to have to pay the piper.


If you really want to make America great and make it back to its former days, why don't we return to the "good ole days" when immigration was a big component of our growth. That has always been the "American way".
If talking LEGAL aliens, I def agree. Tho I'd favor English speaking countries like England, Australia, New Zealand, Philippines, South Africa, Nigeria and so on. The way our immigration laws are set up; places like Mexico and so on get to send more people here and, I ain't talking just illegal aliens to be fair.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
1,073 posts, read 493,333 times
Reputation: 813
America needs immigrants and I'm hoping for immigration reform to fix this broken system. I think the time is right to provide a path to citizenship for otherwise law abiding illegal immigrants while reorienting the system towards being a merit based one.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:55 AM
 
2,427 posts, read 783,770 times
Reputation: 3114
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullandre View Post
America needs immigrants and I'm hoping for immigration reform to fix this broken system. I think the time is right to provide a path to citizenship for otherwise law abiding illegal immigrants while reorienting the system towards being a merit based one.
We already admit more than a million legal immigrants each year. How many do you think we should be taking in?

I have a sister-in-law that came hewho thought it was OK to cut to the front of the line? If we give the current illegals amnesty, even more will come figuring they'll eventually get the same. When the border is 100% locked down and society has resolved that any newly arrived illegal will be dealt with harshly, then we can talk about what to do with the others that are already here.

I do agree that a merit based system is the way to go. Perhaps that can be applied to the current illegals. Those that are fully self-supporting (no food stamps, Medicaid etc), who speak English, who do not have a criminal record, and who otherwise have a skill or something to offer society can be considered for legal status.
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Old 04-01-2017, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
9,289 posts, read 8,407,187 times
Reputation: 5304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53 View Post
We already admit more than a million legal immigrants each year. How many do you think we should be taking in?
We probably need around 2-5 million a year to prevent economic collapse.
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Old 04-01-2017, 06:44 PM
 
11,485 posts, read 5,507,878 times
Reputation: 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
We probably need around 2-5 million a year to prevent economic collapse.
Seriously? And where are all those people and their offspring going to live? We don't have unlimited buildable land or potable water. India has 1 billion plus people and Bangalore doesn't have enough potable water. I don't want a future like that for my grandkids.

Our roads in urban and suburban areas are plagued with gridlock. Our infrastructure is crumbling and there isn't enough money to fix it. I live in one of the fastest growing parts of the country and it has caused a loss in quality of life. Main roads are constantly getting widened and it's still never enough. Green space has been cleared so rapidly that the animals have no place to go. Animals one would never expect to encroach on suburbia are now doing so. Some cities in desert areas depend on underground aquifers for their water. Experts say that there is no way to determine whether such places like Phoenix and Tucson will run out of water.

Countries will survive for the better with less population growth. Their economies will adjust. It's irresponsible to add millions of people per year to our population without giving a thought as to if the natural resources will be adequate to support the population.
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Old 04-01-2017, 07:27 PM
 
2,427 posts, read 783,770 times
Reputation: 3114
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
Seriously? And where are all those people and their offspring going to live? We don't have unlimited buildable land or potable water. India has 1 billion plus people and Bangalore doesn't have enough potable water. I don't want a future like that for my grandkids.

Our roads in urban and suburban areas are plagued with gridlock. Our infrastructure is crumbling and there isn't enough money to fix it. I live in one of the fastest growing parts of the country and it has caused a loss in quality of life. Main roads are constantly getting widened and it's still never enough. Green space has been cleared so rapidly that the animals have no place to go. Animals one would never expect to encroach on suburbia are now doing so. Some cities in desert areas depend on underground aquifers for their water. Experts say that there is no way to determine whether such places like Phoenix and Tucson will run out of water.

Countries will survive for the better with less population growth. Their economies will adjust. It's irresponsible to add millions of people per year to our population without giving a thought as to if the natural resources will be adequate to support the population.
Those who think endless growth is a necessity need to realize that life can go on rather nicely without it. I live in Vermont. Our population is flat thus far this decade and growth was pretty minimal the decade prior to that. Our unemployment rate is extremely low. Violent crime is extremely low. Quality of life is high. Our natural resources are not being stressed with development demands. We're doing just fine.
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Old 04-01-2017, 07:30 PM
 
594 posts, read 308,184 times
Reputation: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
There are a great many articles out there about the coming decline in world population. Here's a sample:
World population may actually start declining, not exploding.

America will join the rest of the industrialized world with a shrinking population, and in a few generations it will become noticeable.
Other articles to google up can be found under "China's Demographic Time Bomb" and "Shrinking World Population".

People have been told for many, many years that the world population is "increasing exponentially", and that used to be true. Now, it's only true in India and Pakistan and maybe a couple of other places. Once the population starts a natural decline, no government has ever been able to reverse that trend. Japan has tried, but with no results.

So the world - and America - will have fewer people in the future. That's a fact, but I have no idea how it will look and what it will feel like.....

Good subject, though.
This is incorrect and obsolete. The latest UN Population Report projects world population increasing from just over 7 billion currently to over 11 billion in 2100. I think we should be much more worried about over-population and economic, political and ecological stress that it would involve, rather than declining population. And in the US, an actual decline in the population is extremely unlikely.

Here is the link to the report, see especially Figure 2 on page 2. Sobering!

https://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Publicat...s_WPP_2015.pdf
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Old 04-01-2017, 07:33 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
We probably need around 2-5 million a year to prevent economic collapse.
Uh; we have lots of "bodies" of working age but, many of us WON'T put up with stuff that illegal aliens will cause their kind are afraid of being deported. Many of us WILL do some serious work if we're paid well enough and, NOT "dogged" cause managers keep changing the rules.
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Old 04-01-2017, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
1,073 posts, read 493,333 times
Reputation: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Uh; we have lots of "bodies" of working age but, many of us WON'T put up with stuff that illegal aliens will cause their kind are afraid of being deported. Many of us WILL do some serious work if we're paid well enough and, NOT "dogged" cause managers keep changing the rules.
Hence, legalize those law abiding illegals and toughen immigration laws to prevent the present situation from repeating itself. As Americans we need to show humanity to others.
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