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Old 03-28-2008, 05:55 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285

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Quote:
Originally Posted by barinnas View Post
Wel those are situations that I have witnessed many,many times, so to me is a fact if you need hard evidence, look for it yourself.
Unfortunately, there will always be at least a few people who feel that the laws do not apply to them for some reason and therefore it is OK to cheat.

 
Old 03-28-2008, 07:04 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,484,948 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Unfortunately, there will always be at least a few people who feel that the laws do not apply to them for some reason and therefore it is OK to cheat.
Laws and morality do not always mix. If a country makes it against the law to be a Christian it is illegal to be one...but it is not immoral.

Don't confuse legality and morality. They are not the same. Good men violate immoral laws. Hiding Jews from the Nazis was highly illegal...maybe a capital crime. It was also highly moral.

To do the right thing for ones family may be the moral right even if it violates US immigration law.
 
Old 03-28-2008, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Laws and morality do not always mix. If a country makes it against the law to be a Christian it is illegal to be one...but it is not immoral.

Don't confuse legality and morality. They are not the same. Good men violate immoral laws. Hiding Jews from the Nazis was highly illegal...maybe a capital crime. It was also highly moral.

To do the right thing for ones family may be the moral right even if it violates US immigration law.
If we are dealing with political refugees------i.e. the Jews trying to get away from the Nazi's prior to 1945, I would have no moral qualms about disregarding the immigration laws.

Economic refugees; OTOH, too bad-------assuming they are not starving in their home countries.

Darfur has many starving people whereas Mexico does not.
 
Old 03-28-2008, 07:40 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,484,948 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
If we are dealing with political refugees------i.e. the Jews trying to get away from the Nazi's prior to 1945, I would have no moral qualms about disregarding the immigration laws.

Economic refugees; OTOH, too bad-------assuming they are not starving in their home countries.

Darfur has many starving people whereas Mexico does not.
[Moderator Cut: inappropriate comments]

It is just about always moral for us to throw out even political refugees. Certainly economic ones.

It may however also be moral for either to sneak in.

Last edited by madicarus2000; 03-28-2008 at 07:59 PM.. Reason: Try to be polite.
 
Old 03-28-2008, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,361,805 times
Reputation: 4893
I have the legal and moral right to reject illegal immigration and reject those who violate our laws.

I have the legal and moral right to demand that our laws are enforced and that those who violate our laws be deported.
 
Old 03-28-2008, 10:10 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,484,948 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
I have the legal and moral right to reject illegal immigration and reject those who violate our laws.

You certainly have the moral right. The legal right is a different subject. How are you harmed? The courts generally deny generic rights...you have to have something specific to have standing.

Quote:
I have the legal and moral right to demand that our laws are enforced and that those who violate our laws be deported
No you don't. You might want to rephrase it a bit. Though even then you are likely wrong...

For someone trained as a lawyer you really don't know much about it...
 
Old 03-29-2008, 05:32 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
9,598 posts, read 9,467,492 times
Reputation: 6725
I'm no lawyer, but when someone is driving recklessly, people have a right, no, a duty to report it. I am not being harmed in any way by this reckless driver, but he is a danger to society in general.

Plus, this is America. A free country. You have the right to "reject" a person for wearing red shoes if you like, why not for being here illegally?

Also, we should have a reasonable expectation that our law be enforced. Otherwise, why have them?
 
Old 03-29-2008, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
You certainly have the moral right. The legal right is a different subject. How are you harmed? The courts generally deny generic rights...you have to have something specific to have standing.



No you don't. You might want to rephrase it a bit. Though even then you are likely wrong...

For someone trained as a lawyer you really don't know much about it...
I side with Greatday 100% there-------to the point that if I saw a bunch of known illegal immigrants here, I would call 1 866 DHS 2 ICE.
 
Old 03-29-2008, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,361,805 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
No you don't. You might want to rephrase it a bit. Though even then you are likely wrong...
To the contrary:

I have te legal right to demand that the law is enforced: It is called, the Freedom of Speech

And, your comment as to how I was harmed: Easy. I'm a taxpayer. I am being harmed financially - through my tax dollars being spent -
 
Old 03-29-2008, 08:55 AM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,484,948 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
To the contrary:

I have te legal right to demand that the law is enforced: It is called, the Freedom of Speech

And, your comment as to how I was harmed: Easy. I'm a taxpayer. I am being harmed financially - through my tax dollars being spent -
You do have the right to complain...go for it.

Your tax dollar is spent according to the law and the Constitution. So you are not harmed. If you don't like the way it is spent petition to change it. But you are not harmed and have no standing.

The cost of illegal immigration has long been demonstrated to be close to neutral any way it is calculated. The feds make out and the states lose. Complain to the feds. Overall economic impact appears to harm the low end legal worker while aiding those who employ the illegal. Society pretty much breaks even on the result.

Illegals are cheap. One of the major arguments made against amnesty is that it costs too much...that is because legals are much more expensive than illegals .

Getting the facts straight does not require support of illegals. Just support of truth.
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