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Old 05-12-2017, 04:54 PM
 
3,321 posts, read 919,988 times
Reputation: 2028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
The post portrays yet another right wing myth. Illegal aliens or undocumented immigrants both are fine...that is what they are and they should be differentiated from legal immigrants.

Only the right wing believes that the left wishes to change the name. Simply more attempts to demonize the left. And they are correctly referred to as immigrants which has no legal requirement in its definition.
The media and leftist politicians have been using their left-speak for years to legitimize illegal immigrants by first calling them 'undocumented' and now, simply immigrants. Their current rhetoric goes this way, "Trump and the GOP are opposed to immigrants and hate immigrants".

They purposely tangle the two as to legitimize illegal immigrants and confuse and reeducate their voters.
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Old 05-12-2017, 05:03 PM
 
10,754 posts, read 3,759,045 times
Reputation: 4702
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
Many illegal aliens are "documented": Illegal, but Not Undocumented | Center for Immigration Studies and https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/3-...identity-theft and Illegal Alien Identity*Theft | and Chambersburg police charge illegal immigrants with identity theft

I see identity theft as a way to really get things moving. Otherwise law-abiding illegal aliens.......

No one has to "demonize" the left, they do it to themselves by scoffing at our laws, at our President, at our system of government................

Illegal alien: Illegal alien | Define Illegal alien at Dictionary.com "residing in a country without authorization"

Well, once we get the majority out, we won't hear the terms anymore.
There are things that are assumed in all of these terms. And for undocumented aliens the presumption is legal immigration documentation is missing. And for one described as an illegal alien we presume he is illegal to the US immigration statutes. But he could also have trouble with some other statute and have legal immigration status and therefore be an illegal alien.

The crucial thing however is the government is quite clear the terms are interchangeable.

There is no where near the necessary resource to pursue the illegals in any substantial way. And one would not as it is far easier to simply deport that to get criminal convictions. And given we are an order of magnitude off on the less expensive way why on earth would we drive the cost out sight by doing it the hard way.

And there is no way to get half out. The best Trump et al can do is hold it flat. Maybe in the short term he can create enough fear to get it down a bit. But that will vanish as it becomes clear he can do no more than Obama.
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Old 05-13-2017, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Metro Washington DC
12,559 posts, read 18,941,353 times
Reputation: 7198
Punish employers that hire illegals. Do a better job verifying that a worker is allowed to work. Those are resources that will substantially reduce the number of illegal aliens. Only after a substantial reduction in numbers can we begin to talk about pathways.
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Old 05-15-2017, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
4,529 posts, read 1,946,524 times
Reputation: 6775
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
I make no claim about numbers. I merely point out the nature of purported left wing beliefs when they are quoted here. And if they are not put forth here I do not bring them up.

And Berkeley did not ban "illegal alien". The Student Government did. And Jerry Brown did not ban "alien". He signed legislation passed by the legislature that removed the word from labor statutes.

There is a belief in some quarters that "illegal alien" has a pejorative context that should be avoided in discourse. I do not personally agree with that and use the term as being the most accurate description of that class of individual but I have no objections to substituting "undocumented immigrant" which is held by the government to be an equivalent term.

And I am in full agreement that the illegal alien population needs to be reduced to near zero. I assert that there is no workable way to do this that does not involve legalizing most of the present illegal alien population. The logistics and political realities indicate this is the only thing that may work.

Over 30 years of history testifies we are not going to deport the existing illegal alien population. The right can continue to block resolving the situation but only at the risk of another large influx at some point.
I said that Jerry Brown banned the term alien from the Labor Code. You just restated exactly what I said. No where in my post did I say he banned the term anywhere else. And btw, ban is synonymous with remove.

There are two major parties in the country. The leader at the top is going to be either from the Democratic Party or the Republican Party. The left wing party's candidate made a pledge never to use the term illegal alien again. She wouldn't have done that if she weren't experiencing pressure from her base--those on the left!--to do so.

Thirty years is a blip in America's history. Just go back a little farther to Eisenhower, who successfully removed a large illegal population from our soil. Where there is a will there is a way. You're just making excuses.
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Old 05-15-2017, 11:52 AM
 
10,754 posts, read 3,759,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaphawoman View Post
I said that Jerry Brown banned the term alien from the Labor Code. You just restated exactly what I said. No where in my post did I say he banned the term anywhere else. And btw, ban is synonymous with remove.

There are two major parties in the country. The leader at the top is going to be either from the Democratic Party or the Republican Party. The left wing party's candidate made a pledge never to use the term illegal alien again. She wouldn't have done that if she weren't experiencing pressure from her base--those on the left!--to do so.

Thirty years is a blip in America's history. Just go back a little farther to Eisenhower, who successfully removed a large illegal population from our soil. Where there is a will there is a way. You're just making excuses.
Brown signed legislation which originated in the legislature. He did not prevent it but nor did he initiate it. As a generality one blames legislation on the legislature though in this case the Governor is complicit in the legislation but no he did not ban alien...the legislature did.

Eisenhower's project was mostly a public relations put on. And it involved the removal of a number of US citizens completely illegally. You could have Trump declare that all the illegal aliens have left out of fear of his program. Nothing will really happen but you guys can act like it did...just like they did for Ike.

For a politician to not use the term "illegal alien" may be wise. So what? An undocumented alien by another name.

Thirty years is more than long enough to show the view of the American people...and then some. There simply is no will to undertake a large and expensive program to deport the illegal aliens. And there is not going to be that will anytime soon. So the right is simply continuing to beat the dead horse...it is not going to stand up
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Old 05-15-2017, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,079,037 times
Reputation: 18141
Anyone not legally in the US should get the boot ASAP. Call them what you like, but get them on the bus headed home.

With amnesty off the table, and I feel some employers are already getting the jitters, we can continue to chip away.

Undocumented is horse poop, we all know what they mean! There is no nice work for a criminal in my book. What is it "If you put lipstick on a pig, you still have a pig."?
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Old 05-15-2017, 01:09 PM
 
10,754 posts, read 3,759,045 times
Reputation: 4702
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
Anyone not legally in the US should get the boot ASAP. Call them what you like, but get them on the bus headed home.

With amnesty off the table, and I feel some employers are already getting the jitters, we can continue to chip away.

Undocumented is horse poop, we all know what they mean! There is no nice work for a criminal in my book. What is it "If you put lipstick on a pig, you still have a pig."?
Best case that "booting" will take ten years and cost tens of billions of dollars and great social upheaval and may not work.

And there is no popular support for it. Small percent in favor of mass deportation.

So you live with the status quo or legalize Simple as that.
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Old 05-15-2017, 02:05 PM
 
1,225 posts, read 362,209 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Best case that "booting" will take ten years and cost tens of billions of dollars and great social upheaval and may not work.

And there is no popular support for it. Small percent in favor of mass deportation.

So you live with the status quo or legalize Simple as that.
How does it take 10 years?
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Old 05-15-2017, 02:19 PM
 
10,754 posts, read 3,759,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerlily87 View Post
How does it take 10 years?
that is probably optimistic. You need to double the entire immigration enforcement system - that takes a couple of years. And the double it again again a couple of years. That would get you to the point of being able to deport 10% of the illegals each year.

And then it begins to get tough. And you run into social unrest. And the people detained fight hard in the courts and the delays trail on to 5 and 6 years...

And 6 years in the population tires of the cost and the problems created and we stop and again de-emphasise deportation.

With the normal political and social movements we could well do it for 25 years and still not get it done.
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Old 05-15-2017, 02:21 PM
 
1,225 posts, read 362,209 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
that is probably optimistic. You need to double the entire immigration enforcement system - that takes a couple of years. And the double it again again a couple of years. That would get you to the point of being able to deport 10% of the illegals each year.

And then it begins to get tough. And you run into social unrest. And the people detained fight hard in the courts and the delays trail on to 5 and 6 years...

And 6 years in the population tires of the cost and the problems created and we stop and again de-emphasise deportation.

With the normal political and social movements we could well do it for 25 years and still not get it done.
I see. I thought you were speaking about one person in specific
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