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Old 03-15-2008, 02:52 AM
 
Location: Metropolis
1,253 posts, read 3,342,598 times
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No one can argue that the replacement level fertility we have in this country is basically just keeping us afloat. At least we aren't expecting population declines like most other industrialized nations. The problem is, that this trend is here to stay, and our captitalist system is absolutely set up in a pro-growth economic system. To make this situation worse, we are now competing with nations with unending amounts of cheap labor, which is a major, major advantage in our global system our leaders had the wisdom to set up. So then we have to start importing legal immigrants be the millions, just to barely keep up with a labor fairness equilibrium with China, India and others. Hell, even super low fertility Western Europe have many super low fertility, although cheap labor eastern Europeans to compete.

I know America is capitalist lion in the world and will do anything to stay on top. This is the reason that, legal immigration wasn't enough so let's allow
illegals to flood in. Imagine, this is a manmade phenomenon with a very
unsavory side-effect, the third-worlding of our great country. I know many of you think that if the illegals leave that the businesses will have to pay decent wages, but do you think this will last. Before you know it, a guest worker program will be set up, (this will not be offered to illegals here to appease us) that will basically have the same side effect, maybe worse.

Another question is "Legal Immigration", we allow about 1 million people a year in (what jobs are they taking?). Is this to much, and if so or not, what should it be.

Or maybe legal immigration is not needed on a massive scale (immeadiate family members only along with special circumstance individuals), perhaps
this would equate to about 200,000 per year. Is this anti-immigrant, because allowing any immigrants in and calling it anti-immigrant is a bit of an oxy-moron.

Should we change our economic system to a pro-growth a total focus on
increasing productivity through technology and robotics. Or maybe this is
foolish because why would we build robots when there are capable needy
hands that can do the work, who need to feed their families. Oh, wait a minute, the corporatists always stress that the bottom line is paramount.

Are you starting to see the cluster-**** paradigm we are dealing with here.

IMO, the United States of America is matured and full (if you value an at least moderate quality of life). We shouldn't worry about Asia so much, because their birthrates are plummeting way faster than ours, and they will
be come old much sooner than they become rich, which will cause further
pressure, causing birthrates to fall even further.

It is fine IMO that the world settles out as a multi-polar system of power over the planet (better for the people). The West, Middle East, East Asia, India and the wild card; Latin America.

We don't need massive legal immigration and definitely zero of the illegal kind.
And don't let them turn social security private, because they will have all of us by the balls or pubic hairs, and unless with want our retirement to go down in flames, we will have no choice to become what we revile.

Thanks for enduring my macro-philisophical diatribe on this contentious issue.
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Old 03-16-2008, 02:12 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 60,463,567 times
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The population problem is that of Mexico and Central America's where people begin to breed at very young ages with no education or ability to provide for their large families.

You have to wonder if Mexicans were to delay child birth until after they finished an eduation, attained job skills and a job, and a marriage, and limited family size to what they could afford, if there would be such a massive immigration problem.

Growth just for growth's sake accomplishes nothing because Mexico has an extreme population growth rate and is not doing at all well. One problem in Mexico is that the upper and middle classes don't have 15 children families nor do they start reproducing at 13-14 years of age but that's common among the poor.
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 37,394,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The population problem is that of Mexico and Central America's where people begin to breed at very young ages with no education or ability to provide for their large families.

You have to wonder if Mexicans were to delay child birth until after they finished an eduation, attained job skills and a job, and a marriage, and limited family size to what they could afford, if there would be such a massive immigration problem.

Growth just for growth's sake accomplishes nothing because Mexico has an extreme population growth rate and is not doing at all well. One problem in Mexico is that the upper and middle classes don't have 15 children families nor do they start reproducing at 13-14 years of age but that's common among the poor.
Actually; the birthrate in Mexico today is under 2.4 children per woman-------down from 7.3 back in 1962. Replacement level is 2.1 kids.
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Old 03-16-2008, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Metropolis
1,253 posts, read 3,342,598 times
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Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Actually; the birthrate in Mexico today is under 2.4 children per woman-------down from 7.3 back in 1962. Replacement level is 2.1 kids.
Did you ever think that maybe the reason it has dropped so much is because so many of their would-be high fertility women have come here to have their 3+ children.

It is also well documented that lower birthrate = higher quality of life for a society. Problem for the corporatists is that they will find it harder and harder to keep the third world population from being educated about this, in our information world. What will they do, one way to fatten their pockets is causing money to be pulled from their other pocket. Bush pulled family planning funding, after only a few weeks of being in office. What does that tell you about how much of a priority it is to not artificially depress the worlds population growth for these greedy nut jobs. These people are sick......
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Old 03-16-2008, 12:42 PM
 
157 posts, read 281,660 times
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Default Logic

I don't know where these figures come from but here we see hispanics with 6 or 7 kids. Not uncommon to see 8 kids and another one on the way. It is a population explosion here. They do not believe in birth control. I think it has something to do with them being catholic.
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 37,394,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOGIC View Post
I don't know where these figures come from but here we see hispanics with 6 or 7 kids. Not uncommon to see 8 kids and another one on the way. It is a population explosion here. They do not believe in birth control. I think it has something to do with them being catholic.
Here in Arizona; it is not unusual to see Spanish speaking Mestizo Latino couples age 30 on down with but 1-2 kids

Hispanic families with 4+ young kids are diminishing rapidly.
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:18 PM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,728,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Here in Arizona; it is not unusual to see Spanish speaking Mestizo Latino couples age 30 on down with but 1-2 kids

Hispanic families with 4+ young kids are diminishing rapidly.
Who can afford to have 4 or more kids in child care. Its cheaper for one parent to stay home.
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Old 03-16-2008, 11:00 PM
 
Location: California
1,268 posts, read 862,563 times
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I come from a family of 5. Two parents 3 kids, dad worked and stay at home mom until my youngest brother was about 9. My mom worked very short hours and really worked for pleasure. Worked with kids with mental disabilities. It is rare that I see a family with more than 4 children, yes even we Mexicans are surprised nowadays. However this is anecdotal data, and I know that there are families with more than 4 kids. You just don't seem them as much anymore.
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:25 AM
 
46 posts, read 95,292 times
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My grandfather was able to buy a nice house in LA County and raise 3 kids and a stay at home wife as a high school graduate working for Ford. That life is completely gone as are the fields, orchards, and farms that used to surround my grandfather's house. Today, in their place, are endless miles of urban concrete barrios patrolled by roving gangs of La Raza preaching a seditious ideology of reconquesta riddled with falsehoods while deepening deficits abound now both for the county and many of the cities in the county. US citizens allowed this situation to occur and it is US citizens children and grandchildren who will suffer the most as these problems worsen.
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Old 03-18-2008, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 37,394,815 times
Reputation: 3789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paleoroundtable View Post
My grandfather was able to buy a nice house in LA County and raise 3 kids and a stay at home wife as a high school graduate working for Ford. That life is completely gone as are the fields, orchards, and farms that used to surround my grandfather's house. Today, in their place, are endless miles of urban concrete barrios patrolled by roving gangs of La Raza preaching a seditious ideology of reconquesta riddled with falsehoods while deepening deficits abound now both for the county and many of the cities in the county. US citizens allowed this situation to occur and it is US citizens children and grandchildren who will suffer the most as these problems worsen.
Much like the Federal government stepping in 50+ years with it placing the states' National Guards* under central control to break the back of Jim Crow-------it is past time for the Feds to bypass Sacramento, Ca. and crack down on those cities like Lynwood and Compton that are Sanctuary Cities for the illegal immigrants.

*Google Little Rock, Arkansas desegregation ca. 1956 and you will catch my drift.
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