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Old 01-23-2018, 09:53 AM
 
21,408 posts, read 10,676,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flittermouse View Post
Also, it's be hard to find a good maid to keep your house clean.
Clean your own home.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Who do you think were doing them before millions of cheap illegals flooded our border? Did they mow themselves? Commercial landscaping used to be done by Americans for a fair wage.
Yep. And in the 70s it was uncommon for middle-class Americans to use a gardener. I know that in our area, WE were the gardeners - us kids.

And the "Japanese Gardener" was a real thing. And highly prized and respected too...primarily by people that had intricate landscaping and lots of ornamental plants (and who were more affluent). I haven't seen a Japanese gardener in many years. There are still a few Japanese nurseries around...but even those seem to be slowly going extinct as the newer generations themselves now look down on the family business.

Here in the SF Bay Area it seems that many young people just want to indenture themselves into wage-slavery and become a tech-drone.

Its interesting that as the market has become glutted with Third Worlders with low skills and low education, that jobs that had some "trade" component (Japanese Gardener) and were seen as a luxury good by those with money, has become a commodity that garners little or no respect and commands little financial power.

Hmm...I wonder, what Economic force could possibly explain such a transformation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
And some people actually did and still do their own mowing and gardening. And house cleaning.

Landscaping work wasn't just a fair wage, it was an excellent wage. During a construction boom years ago I worked for a landscaping company in the summer part time in addition to my full time job just for extra money. It was easy work for the girls, we just planted and watered flowers and had fun flirting with the young buff AMERICAN men. It was crazy good money for a few hours. I could never have foreseen what has happened now. Then again tech was also ninety nine percent Americans and companies would train kids out of high school for good paying technical jobs. America first, wtf happened.
Imagine that. Better times!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones View Post
lmao...No they are not. Only commercial construction is.
Agreed. I know several people in the trades (owners) who have told me that unless they have commercial or government projects, they can't afford to pay union scale. And it doesn't make sense to pay union scale either -most of that extra cost is just wasted. Depending on the union, some of it goes into legitimate expenses like health benefits, but most is just overhead that goes into union bosses pockets, for their high salaries and organizational costs, for their political expenses (ie bribe slush funds) for the union "no work" coverage (which is money the union pays its members when they refuse to work...100% waste).
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:56 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,120 posts, read 15,680,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevroqs View Post
More housing available for Americans and legal immigrants.
Not necessarily. In California, the housing shortage is primarily due to regulations, making it difficult for builders to make a profit building "affordable" housing (such as the tract homes that were being built everywhere when we bought our first home in the San Diego area in the 70's). They are only building upscale homes, which are more profitable, meaning that "starter homes" are much less available.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:58 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flittermouse View Post
If 10 million people suddenly left the housing market, demand would drop, especially in the rental market. Property values would decline, and Americans would lose millions upon millions in their real estate investments. You'd also see a stop to new construction accompanied by massive job losses in that sector as well as in other housing related industries.
Baseless speculation.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:01 AM
 
1,815 posts, read 735,066 times
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We wouldn't have to deport anybody.

All we have to do is go after landlords that rent to illegals with ridiculous fines. We could do random sweeps, and then no one would rent to illegal immigrants, and they would have no choice but to go back to their own countries.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:06 AM
 
5,240 posts, read 1,570,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
When I was working in construction the only Mexican crews I remember seeing were in drywall hanging and finishing, and some painting crews. I suppose there were some roofers, too. We did framing and finishing and we subbed for other contractors (white) who were in the home building and remodeling business (custom homes). We also did a lot of commercial work. I did this for a couple of years, working for my wife's brothers.

Commercial work (at least in California) has always required paying "prevailing wage."

Perhaps a lot has changed since then (late 80's). Even so, the crews I knew of who were Mexicans were not illegals. And by the way, they were fast, and did excellent work.
Yep I agree with that, we bought a house back in 1999, and when it was being built, I went by the site every week to check up on the progress. I was surprised, but not shocked, to find the drywallers were illegals. And I'm sure some of the other subs were too - the contractor doesn't have a lot of options. They have to get the structure completed on a schedule - they take whoever is available. And that means you might have illegals working on your project. You're lucky if you can get a foreman that speaks fluent English sometimes.

I just had a fence built a few months ago. I'd put money on most of the crew being illegal. Foreman was questionable, too. Top dollar company too. No cost savings to the consumer from using illegal labor. All the fence companies price by the linear foot. You can divide them into three tiers of expense and quality. But you get illegals no matter which one you choose.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:13 AM
 
2,278 posts, read 708,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flittermouse View Post
If 10 million people suddenly left the housing market, demand would drop, especially in the rental market. Property values would decline, and Americans would lose millions upon millions in their real estate investments. You'd also see a stop to new construction accompanied by massive job losses in that sector as well as in other housing related industries.
Exactly, why don't conservatives understand these basic economic principles? You cut supply - in this case 10-11 million consumers of housing, food, services, etc and demand will drop leading to job losses, crashes in the real estate and investor markets. Any gains that native born American achieve by getting jobs or making more money in the unskilled labor positions will be more than eaten up by the higher prices that everyone will be forced to pay. I have zero sympathy for any American that can have their job taken away by an uneducated peasant from the third world. Maybe if you had paid more attention to the world around you and devoted more energy to your education you wouldn't be competing for jobs against third world peasants that work harder than you to make something of themselves.

Immigrants will travel thousands of miles across some of the world's most dangerous terrain for a job that most Americans wouldn't cross the street to do.

Last edited by shorman; 01-23-2018 at 10:22 AM..
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:17 AM
 
1,815 posts, read 735,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shorman View Post
Exactly, why don't conservatives understand these basic economic principles? You cut supply - in this case 10-11 million consumers of housing, food, services, etc and demand will drop leading to job losses, crashes in the real estate and investor markets.
The market would adjust to change not collapse.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:21 AM
 
1,459 posts, read 945,932 times
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It's pretty easy to find desperate citizens to perform cheap (read: sub minimum wage) labor in a variety of service-oriented occupations without resorting to hiring illegals. All one really needs to do is set up an S-Corp to feign legitimacy & get better tax breaks, acquire service contracts, and 1099 the downtrodden to perform the work for pennies on the dollar. It's quite common among some of my side-business' competition.

The illegals still afford unscrupulous business owners advantages they wouldn't receive via hiring actual citizens, though. The illegals work harder, complain less (or not at all), and don't run to law enforcement or the government to report other illicit behavior on the part of business owners or their co-conspirators.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:28 AM
 
2,278 posts, read 708,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
The market would adjust to change not collapse.
Exactly, the market would react to the loss of 10 million customers with a steep decline in prices and property values leading to crashes in the real estate and stock markets.
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