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Old 01-23-2018, 12:27 PM
 
2,278 posts, read 708,765 times
Reputation: 3920

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Not true. Americans have always done construction work for a fair wage. They were ran off those jobs by greedy builders and illegal aliens by working for less. They used to pay a liveable wage. Blue-collared families tend to pass hard work on to their kids and many Americans don't want to be white-collared desk jockies nor can they afford to go to college. The American dream can be attained through hard work to.


Americans have not created this situation our government has by not securing our border and not enforcing our immigration laws along with a wink and a nod to the greedy employers while they broke the law. So, yes illegal aliens are just as guilty as they are. Where are you getting the notion that Americans will no longer clean houses, take commercial landscaping jobs, etc.? It's not true that Americans will no longer do blue-collared jobs or that their kids won't either.
What is your idea of a fair wage for:

Mowing grass
Hanging drywall
Roofing
Basic labor

As an American how much more do you believe I should have to spend because Americans too lazy to take advantage of the educational opportunities that might provide them with an occupation that can fund a middle class lifestyle chose to work low end manual labor jobs instead? It seems to me that I shouldn't have to pay the price so some blue collar worker can take the easy path through life. There is a reason that I am not worried about somebody from South America with the equivalent of a 4th grade education taking my job. These Americans only have themselves to blame, they have squandered every advantage and opportunity they had and are now whining about being left behind. They left themselves behind.

Last edited by shorman; 01-23-2018 at 12:53 PM..
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Old 01-23-2018, 03:16 PM
 
5,238 posts, read 1,570,692 times
Reputation: 5031
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Baseless speculation.
You think its baseless speculation to postulate that when people occupying housing leave, that demand will drop?

Um....okay.

See, this is kinda what I expected to see on this thread, but was secretly hoping I wouldn't.

Liberals that defy basic economic principles so their world-view doesn't crumble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shorman View Post
Exactly, why don't conservatives understand these basic economic principles? You cut supply - in this case 10-11 million consumers of housing, food, services, etc and demand will drop leading to job losses, crashes in the real estate and investor markets. Any gains that native born American achieve by getting jobs or making more money in the unskilled labor positions will be more than eaten up by the higher prices that everyone will be forced to pay. I have zero sympathy for any American that can have their job taken away by an uneducated peasant from the third world. Maybe if you had paid more attention to the world around you and devoted more energy to your education you wouldn't be competing for jobs against third world peasants that work harder than you to make something of themselves.

Immigrants will travel thousands of miles across some of the world's most dangerous terrain for a job that most Americans wouldn't cross the street to do.
Unbelievable...you just called consumers supply, of demand. OMG. There is no such thing.

This seems about on par with what I expected as well. Inversion of reality in order to avoid the world-view crumbling.

Hint: consumers represent DEMAND.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
How about the shortage of skilled labor in the construction field? There is a lot of demand, but no takers.

Is it the 'laborer' jobs you are referring to? Lugging boards and digging ditches, etc? I'm sure many Americans will jump at the chance to do those jobs.

"...That means there will potentially be lots of new construction jobs. It’d be good news if the industry weren’t already suffering from a labor shortage.

The index, produced by the USG Corporation and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, surveys contractors each quarter to gauge sentiment and measure the health of the construction sector.

Despite demand, 60% of contractors reported difficulty finding skilled workers in the third quarter of 2017 due to an ongoing skilled labor shortage....

Construction Jobs: There's Still a Skilled Labor Shortage | Fortune
Well if 10 million illegals can't fill the need for skilled labor, then no amount of them will. Clearly that population lacks the skills needed. The fact of the matter is most of these skilled positions in the trades are filled with Americans. Masonry, millwork, Plumbing, electrical...first of all, most of these require licensing or apprenticeship to even be hired on a commercial project (that's what this article was about - labor shortages in the Commercial Construction space)

So getting rid of the illegals isn't going to affect this aspect of skilled construction labor, because for the most part they are not doing this work even right now. Despite many of them having been in the country for decades.
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:13 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,618 posts, read 31,190,734 times
Reputation: 26689
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.7traveler View Post
Who would do the landscaping and cut the grass?

We would. It's not hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Clean your own home.
Our housekeeper has a green card, but should something happen to her we'd just do it ourselves. We use a housekeeper to buy our time back, not because we don't know how to clean or think it's beneath us. We clean regularly; she doesn't come every week.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shorman View Post
What is your idea of a fair wage for:
Mowing grass
Hanging drywall
Roofing
Basic labor
We can do 3/4 of those ourselves. We've never had to hire a roofer and we'd hang our own drywall. We do our own labor all the time.
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,091,698 times
Reputation: 18141
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyB View Post
Why can't you cut your own grass? We do.
We are in our 60s and cut our own grass. My friend is 74 and cuts her 3 acres with a riding lawn mower! Of course, we aren't those "lazy Americans" that illegal alien sympathizers talk about, and since they are the ones needing their grass mowed, well, do the "math" on that one!

I don't want illegal aliens putting a roof on my house. I have seen them working and the results. When it comes to your roof, cutting corners will really cost you in the end.

But, I gather that US taxpayers should not complain about the $117 billion that illegal aliens cost us, because some people aren't willing to pay the cost of the services that they need and want us to subsidize them.
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:36 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,823 posts, read 30,083,197 times
Reputation: 17698
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.7traveler View Post
Who would do the landscaping and cut the grass?
We are in a drought, who has grass anymore?
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:39 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,618 posts, read 31,190,734 times
Reputation: 26689
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
We are in our 60s and cut our own grass. My friend is 74 and cuts her 3 acres with a riding lawn mower! Of course, we aren't those "lazy Americans" that illegal alien sympathizers talk about, and since they are the ones needing their grass mowed, well, do the "math" on that one!

I don't want illegal aliens putting a roof on my house. I have seen them working and the results. When it comes to your roof, cutting corners will really cost you in the end.

But, I gather that US taxpayers should not complain about the $117 billion that illegal aliens cost us, because some people aren't willing to pay the cost of the services that they need and want us to subsidize them.
Illegals around here charge sky-high rates for labor anyway if they even halfway know what they're doing because Dallas's construction labor market is super-tight. Rather than pay illegals who aren't bonded and don't really know what they're doing OR pay even more to Americans, we do a lot of labor ourselves. We're not in our 20s either.


We hire pros when pros are necessary. Otherwise...we roll up our sleeves.
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:39 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,823 posts, read 30,083,197 times
Reputation: 17698
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
So, you see no problem with aiding and abetting illegal behavior Then you talk about them working cheaper and harder which means you prefer cheap, illegal, exploitable labor. That's despicable.

Have you checked the laws in your state? In my state if someone who isn't licensed and insured works on your property and gets injured, homeowner's insurance won't cover it. So, if an illegal gets injured and sues you, have fun paying it all right out of your pocket.
People like that, that keep hiring these illegals usually get paid an extra visit midday as they know when they are and aren't home. Trouble is, some of their neighbors with morals that don't hire them, get burglarized too.
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Metro Washington DC
12,563 posts, read 18,954,583 times
Reputation: 7201
It's sad that our economy depends on slave labor to keep going. That is what the people arguing basic economics are advocating. Sure, you pay less, but then force situations like our former neighbors in a 2 bedroom apartment with 18 people living in it. That basic economics you're peddling will drive America down to third world status someday. All to save a few bucks. Smart move, not!
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,091,698 times
Reputation: 18141
The man up the street that does lawn care evenings and weekends gave me his card when I was out walking. To mow a yard, about 50' by 120' would be $30.00. I went to Care.com to price domestic services just to see what was available, this includes everything from eldercare, care of the disabled, housekeeping, etc. and rates there were $10 to $15 an hour. This is in a low cost living area, Hostess pays production workers $13 to $14 an hour to start, one plant that hires illegals start people at $8.00 and another at $7.50 per hour.

Generally, the only needs we have had is roofing - went with the best guy in town, family business and basement repair, again best in town, family business.

Codes aren't enforced in the current town, as that would eliminate a lot of the housing the slumlords are renting to illegals.
If not for greed, the problem with illegal aliens would not exist.
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Old 01-24-2018, 08:05 AM
 
31,691 posts, read 14,614,583 times
Reputation: 8445
A fair wage is what it was plus normal pay increases before millions of cheap illegal aliens flooded our border. Most of them aren't making a living out of mowing peoples lawns either they have taken over commercial landscaping jobs.
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