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Old 02-06-2018, 03:44 PM
 
19,489 posts, read 13,218,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
We just want the law enforced, plain and simple. Should we not enforce any of our laws, or would it just be laws pertaining to illegal immigration.

Keep in mind, they want the illegal alien mom who brought them here to stay also, thus the reason they want citizenship to sponsor that evil mother who did this to them. They want to keep the family together, one way to do that, GO HOME!



I suspect the change that Obama made: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...tary/16225135/
First of all, none of what I have proposed starts until we fund border security, to include a wall where practical, in a way that no Democrat Congress can simply decide to defund.

1) End anchor babies, (no more US anchor baby vacation packages from nations like Russia)
2) End chain migration, except in very limited circumstances
3) End the lottery
4) Any child born in the US is granted the exact same citizenship, or residency status as their parents.
5) End sanctuary cities

Besides, I'm not talking about granting instant citizenship, or instant permanent US residency status.

I'm talking about 10 years of temporary status, after they satisfy a criminal background check, and provide a high school diploma. We deport any criminal adults, and adults who cannot provide a high school diploma, since we paid for their K-12 education.

After 10 years as a temporary citizen, and keeping their noses clean, they can apply for permanent status, which requires more wait time as on temporary status, before they are granted permanent status.

Look at it this way, if a parent robs a bank, do we punish the children too? Because you want to punish these kids by banning them from ever being granted permanent US residency status. Some of these children are still in grade school, and probably have no clue about their citizenship status yet, because they are too young to understand.

The situation, we have millions of illegal alien children, because for decades now, our corrupt politicians in both state and federal government have refused to enforce our immigration laws. We have spent decades encouraging this exact immigration mess. And unless we change our laws, and secure our borders, this will keep being repeated.

In fact, politicians like 0bama and sanctuary cities were the ones encouraging foreign born persons to get into the USA, by hook or by crook.

We have states giving reduced in-state tuition to illegals.
In my state a prior Democrat governor created reduced home mortgages especially for illegals.
Sanctuary cities give out drivers licenses and allow illegals to vote in local elections.

Our corrupt courts decided known illegal aliens:
1) deserve free health care in our hospitals
2) their children deserve free K-12 education & free school lunches

We will have a revolt if we try and just kick out 4, 5 or 10 million people. We have to bite the bullet now, write new laws, create new immigration enforcement, so our grandchildren will not have to deal with this, a third time.
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:59 PM
 
19,489 posts, read 13,218,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
The DACAs need to return to their homelands with their parents and apply to come back legally. Citizenship would be something they could apply for much later on. It is unfair to legal immigrants not to follow the same process as they did. Most of these DACAs were not infants or toddlers when they came here even though they were brought here by their parents. Whether or not they are violent criminals is irrelevant. Children shouldn't benefit from their parent's misdeeds.
I get it, I really do, and in a perfect world, this would work.

But our immigration system has been so bastardized for so many decades, we have so many millions of people in this situation now, that it's not practical to do what you suggest, at least not right now.

Once we pass new laws, like I listed above, and we institute increased border and immigration enforcement, then your very reasonable plan will work just fine. but we have to start a place of strength. Starting in the middle of the chaos and disorder, and out and out revolt that would occur, if we tried to deport all of these kids now????

Doing what you suggest right NOW, would make the riots of the Civil Rights era look like childs play, in a great many cities. Because it would not be just the DACA kids involved, the people up in arms would include everyone sympathetic to their plight, and upset with such a harsh, unyielding deportation tactics.

In a perfect world, "hey, you guys are here illegally, we are deporting you," and they have no choice but to go home. But this is not perfect, and we'd have millions of voices standing firmly, and saying "NO!"
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Old 02-06-2018, 04:11 PM
 
31,882 posts, read 14,670,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
I get it, I really do, and in a perfect world, this would work.

But our immigration system has been so bastardized for so many decades, we have so many millions of people in this situation now, that it's not practical to do what you suggest, at least not right now.

Once we pass new laws, like I listed above, and we institute increased border and immigration enforcement, then your very reasonable plan will work just fine. but we have to start a place of strength. Starting in the middle of the chaos and disorder, and out and out revolt that would occur, if we tried to deport all of these kids now????

Doing what you suggest right NOW, would make the riots of the Civil Rights era look like childs play, in a great many cities. Because it would not be just the DACA kids involved, the people up in arms would include everyone sympathetic to their plight, and upset with such a harsh, unyielding deportation tactics.

In a perfect world, "hey, you guys are here illegally, we are deporting you," and they have no choice but to go home. But this is not perfect, and we'd have millions of voices standing firmly, and saying "NO!"

We don't have to physically deport all the DACAs all at once or their parents. Just let the program end and remove all of the incentives for them to remain here. Many if not most will self-deport. Your plan is starting at a point of weakness not strength by granting residency to them without making them return to their homelands and applying to come back legally. We've been down this road before and amnesty has just made the problem worse as it encouraged more to come here. I do agree with your points 1-5 however and nothing less than that.
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Old 02-06-2018, 04:31 PM
 
15,412 posts, read 8,713,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
So you want to ban them from ever gaining US residency, for fear they might apply for US citizenship? All because their parents brought them to the USA when they were young?

I could see banning people from ever obtaining US residency, as punishment, because they had a history as a violent criminal, but not as a punishment because they were two years old when mom brought them on a trip to America.
So not paying taxes on your income, or stealing someone else's SS#, isn't a crime to you? Because that's pretty much the only way they're earning a living.
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Old 02-06-2018, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,127,847 times
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Actually, the children of parents who break the law here, citizens, do suffer. They usually lose the main breadwinner, sometimes both parents end up in jail/prison and the children go to foster care. We have over 1 million US citizens in prison for non-violent crimes, and many have children living in poverty or foster care. In the spirit of not punishing the children, let's just not enforce any laws in our country.

In the case of a revolt, the National Guard can be called out, and they know how to deal with "situations". And, just letting DACA expire, pulling their rights to things they never should have had will encourage them to go "home" with their illegal alien parents and taking their anchor babies in order to keep the family together.

Let's face it, many parents make wrong decisions that have a negative effect for their kids, but as a country, we don't "reward" them for having crappy parents, we would be really broke then.
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Old 02-06-2018, 08:47 PM
 
5,784 posts, read 3,109,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
So you want to ban them from ever gaining US residency, for fear they might apply for US citizenship? All because their parents brought them to the USA when they were young?

I could see banning people from ever obtaining US residency, as punishment, because they had a history as a violent criminal, but not as a punishment because they were two years old when mom brought them on a trip to America.
They can have a permanent green card. That means they can stay here indefinitely. No, no US citizenship.

They can blame Mom for staying when they should have left. It isn't fair to those who did it the right way.
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Old 02-06-2018, 08:52 PM
 
5,784 posts, read 3,109,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I can't support it either nor can I support them being allowed to remain here, period.
I am not a fan of allowing them to remain here, either. However, I accept it may be impossible to completely put the genie back in the bottle (the genie being putting in DACA in in the first place.) I'll put up with 800,000 permanent residents, provided we get an end to chain migration, border wall funding and elimination of the diversity lottery.
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Old 02-06-2018, 09:40 PM
 
31,882 posts, read 14,670,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minethatbird View Post
I am not a fan of allowing them to remain here, either. However, I accept it may be impossible to completely put the genie back in the bottle (the genie being putting in DACA in in the first place.) I'll put up with 800,000 permanent residents, provided we get an end to chain migration, border wall funding and elimination of the diversity lottery.

Actually, Trump extended it to 1.8 million. The problem is that they will be directly competing for jobs and resources against Americans and they are of the child bearing age so you can at least double that for sure. I do want the other three things that you mentioned though.


These DACAs are already demanding that their parents get to remain here crying about the separation of families thingy so that compounds the problem. That would be the next battle in congress. I say let DACA die a natural death and we fight for the other three.
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:22 AM
 
62,740 posts, read 27,906,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minethatbird View Post
Great post, with one exception.

They should never be granted citizenship. That should be reserved for those who played by the rules.
Agree.
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:26 AM
 
62,740 posts, read 27,906,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Can you really say that a five or ten old year child is guilty of "not playing by the rules?"

I see your point, I really do. I have been of the mind before to send the parents back where they came from, and take their kids with them. After all, the parents had no trouble tearing the kids from the only home they have ever known, and forcing them to leave their friends, classmates behind, to sneak into the USA, a country where their children didn't speak the language or know the culture.

However, before we do anything we need to:
End anchor babies. End chain migration. Define once and for all exactly who is, and who is not a US citizen at birth.
We already know that. I could go into a lot more detail on this, but for the sake of brevity, this is all you really need to know:

Look at CURRENT US Nationality Law. I'm specifically referring to subsections (a) and (b) in the following linked CURRENT Federal Law. If "everyone" born in the US were actually automatically US citizens via the 14th Amendment, subsection (b) would be redundant and would be neither included nor necessary:

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1401

You need to understand WHY that specific legal exception had to be made for US-born Indians (Native Americans), Eskimos, Aleutians, and other US aboriginals to understand WHY not all those born in the US are automatically US Citizens.

(Hint: It's because they are born subject to a foreign sovereign entity. So are illegal aliens' children, but no legal exception has ever been made for them as was made for US-born aboriginals in 1924 - LONG after the ratification of the 14th Amendment.)
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