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Old 01-26-2018, 07:15 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350

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Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
You're right it isn't increasing so why build a wall. But if we deported all illegals it would devastate our country. We would not survive. Farming wouldn't survive for one.

There are still thousands crossing our border illegally every year and until it's reduced to a trickle we need the wall. No, deporting illegal aliens would be a boost to our economy as jobs would open back up for Americans and we'd no longer have to shell out over $100 billion a year for their social costs. Illegal aliens also send billions out of our country every year back to their homelands not spent in our economy, American workers would not do that. Think of the far less crowded schools, hospitals, etc.


I have addressed every single pro-illegal argument you've thrown out there and yet you keep repeating the same ones over and over. I have also addressed the farming issue. Only 2% of illegals are working on farms and for those jobs there are unlimited visas for legal workers. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a fair wage and I have also asked you over and over who you think were doing them for a fair wage before millions of cheap illegals flooded our border and yet you never answer that question. Maybe you could come up with some new arguments without repeating the same ones over and over that have been debunked already?

 
Old 01-26-2018, 07:15 AM
 
Location: la la land
27,167 posts, read 11,349,748 times
Reputation: 19277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Just what are these jobs that Americans won't do for a fair wage and who do you think did them before millions of cheap, illegal aliens flooded our border? You never answer that question truthfully even though I have asked you before. You just keep repeating that they won't clean houses and hotels, etc. and I've asked since when but you never provide proof of it. Americans won't do construction work and all other blue-collared jobs either? Hard work does not excuse anyone for breaking the law either.
Why don't you prove that citizens will take those jobs then? I always thought the way this works is that when you make a claim you support it with facts, you don't insist that people who question it prove that you are wrong.
 
Old 01-26-2018, 07:18 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
Not to mention it would cause an increase in the national deficit. Trust me, I've worked in restaurants that employee illegals, and NONE of them ever get tax refunds. They're too afraid to file taxes, but they don't get audited because they rarely make enough to owe the IRS money. All those millions of dollars they are pouring into the tax pool will vanish.

And there are actually a lot less illegals in here than there were years ago, and there are less of them coming in all the time: https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-01-...family-s-story

This whole issue is a big nothingburger. Of all the problems the US has, a few dishwashers, janitors, and fruit pickers living in the US on expired visas is low on the priorities list.



Want to kick someone out of the country? Let's start with the NSA and the police unions.

We can't kick American citizens out of our country. As for tax refunds for illegal aliens you're incorrect about that also. If Americans got their jobs back they in turn would be paying income taxes. Many illegal aliens get paid cash and therefore avoid paying taxes.


https://www.factcheck.org/2012/05/ta...al-immigrants/
 
Old 01-26-2018, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Florida & Cebu, Philippines
2,808 posts, read 2,234,893 times
Reputation: 2852
Nothing is impossible if we put our minds to it and work as a team instead of a divided country. Deport those we can deport, make it impossible to work or live for the rest and the problem will resolve itself within a reasonable amount of time.

MAGA & Make America America again, a country for all who come here LEGALLY.
 
Old 01-26-2018, 07:33 AM
 
Location: la la land
27,167 posts, read 11,349,748 times
Reputation: 19277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
We can't kick American citizens out of our country. As for tax refunds for illegal aliens you're incorrect about that also. If Americans got their jobs back they in turn would be paying income taxes. Many illegal aliens get paid cash and therefore avoid paying taxes.
Got what jobs back..farm labor jobs? Americans haven't been doing more than 20-30% of that work for a century with the exception of the great depression when migrant citizen workers moved to the west to work in the fields.

As far as your link regarding tax credits, Republicans now control all three branches of government, if this was as big of deal as you are trying to make it out to be why haven't they changed the law? And as usual, you fail to mention what they pay in taxes

"Collectively, America's undocumented immigrants pay an estimated $11.64 billion in state and local taxes every year with at least 50 percent of undocumented immigrant households filing tax returns using Individual Tax Identification Numbers. Many who do not file tax returns still have taxes deducted from their pay checks. Out of that $11.64 billion total, undocumented immigrants pay $6.9 billion in sales and excise taxes, $3.6 billion in property taxes and about $1.1 billion in personal income taxes. ITEP estimated that if America's 11 million undocumented immigrants were granted citizenship allowing them to work legally, current state and tax contributions would be boosted by over $2.1 billion a year."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmc.../#4f80a6551de0
 
Old 01-26-2018, 07:44 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenSJC View Post
In my experience, along with the experiences of many others I know (including both employers and employees from a variety of different businesses), backed up by an immense number of empirical studies, immigrants - regardless of legal status - are at least as hard-working and contribute at least as much to the country as native-born American citizens. In many cases, they’re more hard-working and contribute more than a lot of Americans who take a lot of things for granted because they were lucky enough to be born in this country. Think about that.

Hard work does not excuse anyone for breaking the law. Illegal aliens cost us over $100 billion a year so no, they are not net contributors.


One of the reasons we were lucky to be born here is that we are a nation of laws. With continued illegal immigration that's no longer the case. Think about that!
 
Old 01-26-2018, 07:47 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenSJC View Post
The part where slavery and then Jim Crow was the law of the land and where this country’s founders illegally and violently ended the rule of the Empire to which they belonged.

Some laws are simply unjust and violate human rights and dignity. I don’t fetishize “law and order” unlike so many petty tyrants and authoritarians.

What's unjust about our immigration laws? What about the human rights and dignity of our own citizens?
 
Old 01-26-2018, 07:54 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
*yawn*

That number has been debunked numerous times:
Donald Trump says illegal immigration costs $113 billion a year | PolitiFact

*Yawn*. Perhaps you could tell us what the actual costs are then without using a biased source. You can't possibly believe that they are net contributors. One dollar we spend on illegal aliens is one dollar too much.
 
Old 01-26-2018, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Cape Cod
9,785 posts, read 7,102,126 times
Reputation: 17903
The Dems tell us it would be impossible to round up all the illegals and deport them BUT if we exchanged the words illegal aliens with gun owners, I bet they could round up all the gun owners to take away their firearms.

If Hillary had won and she was now placing judges on the Supreme Court I have no doubt that after she granted amnesty to the millions of future Democrat voters that her next step would be to rewrite the Second Amendment banning all but squirt guns in the hands of citizens.
 
Old 01-26-2018, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,062,995 times
Reputation: 18141
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
And what do you think would happen to our economy. It could cost our economy trillions. Do you even think about the affect it would have on us. Many do jobs americans don't want to do.
It would only cost trillions if we give amnesty to the whole mess of them! We realize, from past posts, that you hire most of your service work out. You can't imagine someone mowing their own grass, so you really don't represent most Americans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenSJC View Post
Why should they be deported?
Because they have broke immigration law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
You're right it isn't increasing so why build a wall. But if we deported all illegals it would devastate our country. We would not survive. Farming wouldn't survive for one.
Seriously, maybe you wouldn't since you appear to contract nearly every job that you can manage if you can hire an illegal to do it, or so your posts indicate time and time again. Farming not survive. I have family members that have been farming for generations and am surrounded by American farmers here in the Flint Hills of Kansas. Where on earth do you live that you are not aware of what America is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
Not to mention it would cause an increase in the national deficit. Trust me, I've worked in restaurants that employee illegals, and NONE of them ever get tax refunds. They're too afraid to file taxes, but they don't get audited because they rarely make enough to owe the IRS money. All those millions of dollars they are pouring into the tax pool will vanish.

And there are actually a lot less illegals in here than there were years ago, and there are less of them coming in all the time: https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-01-...family-s-story

This whole issue is a big nothingburger. Of all the problems the US has, a few dishwashers, janitors, and fruit pickers living in the US on expired visas is low on the priorities list.



Want to kick someone out of the country? Let's start with the NSA and the police unions.
Wrong! https://www.numbersusa.com/blog/tax-...illegal-aliens and Groups want Trump to close loophole allowing illegal immigrants to abuse tax credits | Fox News

Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
Do you honestly think americans want to do the jobs they do. No one seems can answer that. I have never seen such hard workers in my life.
Obviously you hire illegal aliens and watch them work. Many of us do our own work, so your experience is not that of everyone.

PLEASE BOOKMARK THESE SO I DON'T HAVE TO KEEP LINKING THEM IN:

https://cis.org/Are-There-Really-Jobs-Americans-Wont-Do
https://www.numbersusa.com/blog/anot...s-wont-do-myth
https://cis.org/Testimony/Illegal-Im...-Black-Workers

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenSJC View Post
In my experience, along with the experiences of many others I know (including both employers and employees from a variety of different businesses), backed up by an immense number of empirical studies, immigrants - regardless of legal status - are at least as hard-working and contribute at least as much to the country as native-born American citizens. In many cases, they’re more hard-working and contribute more than a lot of Americans who take a lot of things for granted because they were lucky enough to be born in this country. Think about that.
Legal status? We are only talking about illegal aliens, foreigners who have broken our immigration laws, and break laws nearly every day to remain here. They have NO RIGHT TO WORK IN THE USA, get that NO RIGHT!

We have many law breakers in prison, they are hard working, but because they broke the law.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
These are union jobs and they don't hire illegals. And there aren't tens of thousands of teachers who are illegal LOLOL You are so naive, how many americans want to work in hotels and make beds and clean toilets. Tell me how many americans are upset they can't get these jobs because they are plentiful
Seriously, union jobs are few and far between. Where have you been for 30 or so years? The US has changed.

Please see my links above as far as who works in those jobs. Also it is not a matter of who "wants" to do jobs, but what jobs are available in any market and people that want to provide for themselves and their families. Here, many of the jobs that you speak of are done by college students since they are part-time, or moms that do these part-time jobs while the kids are in school. You don't seem to know much about the world of work. Many of us have done or are doing jobs we would rather not do, but rather than be a welfare mooch, we work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
*yawn*

That number has been debunked numerous times:
Donald Trump says illegal immigration costs $113 billion a year | PolitiFact
Only by liberal media that is "full of bunk"!

https://fairus.org/issue/publication...ates-taxpayers

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-billion-over/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MongooseHugger View Post
We'd grow our own food. We'd become more self-sufficient. The globalists would be pissed and I'd be happy!
I'm in Kansas, grew up in Michigan/Indiana area, and people here have been growing their own food for a long time. If we get that tariff on incoming goods, to include produce, that will be a real boom for the family farms. Anymore, many of us are looking for "organic" produce (only God knows what poisons are used on incoming produce) and it is USA and we pay a good price for this healthy produce.

The Amish in the last area where I lived made a good living selling produce and baked goods. There is a market for these items and where you have demand, people will fill that demand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
Oh yeah, like we are all going to work on a farm.
Seriously, 1 farmer feeds 155 people worldwide (https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/ho...armer-feed.htm), so not everyone will have to work on a farm, but you might have to mow your own grass, how about a riding lawn mower? Natalie, I think you are pulling our leg, there is no way that you can't be aware of how all of this works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
[/b]

Again, like my previous post, unions pay those wages with benefits. Illegals don't bring the wages down because unions don't hire illegals. And if you don't think bricklayer pays their employees $45 an hour or more than you have no idea what you are talking about. If you aren't a union member then you don't get the benefits
Unions? This is not 1970! They do bring wages. Here, the companies that hire illegal aliens (let the raids begin) start employees at $7.50 to $8.00 BUT the one that does e-verify has a starting wage of $13 to $14. If we run out the illegals, the other companies will pay more, the wages will be spent locally rather than being Western Unioned out to Mexico (in 2016, $26 billion went out to Mexico alone) supporting more jobs in the community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
I don't know where you keep getting this idea that construction and trade workers are all unionized. A lot of it is not even done on the books. They pay the workers in cash a lot of times even.
I don't understand that either. Most union jobs are gone. And, yes, illegals work off the books.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
Well then that's on the companies who do illegal things, like hiring illegals.
And people who use them to mow their grass, right? Didn't you imply that you didn't mow your own grass and therefore, no one does? Once the workplace raids begin, things will move along a little better. Right now they are concentrating on those with serious crimes and orders of removal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
A DACA? A "dreamer"? Very simply an illegal alien.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
If any construction job isn't union of course it's low paying. And they don't even get benefits.
Oh, they get benefits. The wife/girlfriend drops 4+ anchor babies while living in public housing, and they get free emergency medical care through a loophole in Medicaid. Illegal aliens use the emergency room at 3 times the rate of a US citizen and this includes dropping their anchor babies!

Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
And that's really the point. People will be replaced by robots. So how about we stop having so many kids when they have no future.
Yeah, I thought by now we would be living like the Jetsons, but I just don't see that anytime soon. It is very costly to do and will be impractical with many jobs.

Tell your stop having so many kids to the illegal aliens who have 4+ to milk the US welfare system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltine View Post
“We”? Who’s having all these kids?
I had one and adopted one, but then we had to pay to raise our own kids, unlike the illegals that have the 4+ kids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
No, it won't because unions take care of the middle class and always will.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-...b_4826076.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
Okay, so how exactly do illegals cost the government that much money?
It would take them ALL being on welfare to cost that much. Not to mention a lot of that stuff (like fire protection) isn't even really an expense they make in any way other than their simply being human and being in the US.

I love how Trumpists just ignore any fact that disputes their absurd worldviews.


Bottom line is, illegal immigration is not a big problem. I'm a lot more concerned with water shortages, both present and coming, and antibiotic immune bacteria, than I am a few fruit pickers.
You can't be serious. You are so far off from the mark, most of your post isn't worth addressing or has been previously addressed.

But, water shortage: Why Californians Are Starved of Water

A few fruit pickers? Yes, very few illegal aliens pick fruits, about 2%, but we are talking about all 100% of them. 1 in 8 now holds a white collar job.

Lives Impacted byf Illegal Immigration



Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
Yep, because no American citizen EVER robbed, murdered, or committed fraud


Why do we here all this whining about illegals, when these guys get a pass: https://patch.com/tennessee/nashvill...mbers-indicted


And as for illegals and welfare: https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/polit...ars/index.html


By all means, enforce the laws we already have, but it isn't worth it to go out of our way to deport millions of people when they could just enforce the laws already on the books and the handful of lazy ones will leave on their own.








Gee, I wonder what's harder to live through: having your town run out of water, or having a neighbor named Carlos who washes dishes?

And it isn't "some liberals" saying water shortages will be a problem, it's the CIA:
https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/...20Security.pdf

But hey, they're the "deep state" so what do they know?
But all of these people would still be here with us if not for the presence of an illegal alien:

Victims of Illegal Aliens Memorial Tell their families how illegal aliens aren't a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
But, if you deport enough, many of the illegals will return on their own.
And, the "oh boo-hoo" stories are working just the opposite of how liberal media wants them to work. Families are seeing families like themselves losing illegal family members who are being deported. The smart ones will get ahead of it and go home on their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
A few fruit pickers? Are you not aware that only 2% of illegal aliens are picking crops and that there are unlimited visas for legal, foreign workers for farm work? That means the rest aren't picking fruit they have taken jobs from Americans such as construction by working for less. Is it really necessary to refer to those of us who support our president to call them silly names such as "Trumpists"? Here's a link for you. I have many more. They supplement their wages with welfare.


https://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2...llect-welfare/
I can say that anyone that says "a few fruit pickers" is not aware. The only way to keep promoting illegal immigration as a good thing is to dwell in the land of hopeless ignorance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
It's a little more complex than that, it started with union busting. It's ended up with temp agencies replacing union halls and paying people $10 an hour for work that used to pay enough to support a family. Illegals take those jobs because it's hard to convince a citizen that it's a good idea to tile a roof or stucco a house for minimum wage
We have a lot of people here working for $10 an hour. The illegals work for less, but they have NO RIGHT TO WORK IN THE USA, over 50% working are using a stolen identity (fraud) and others work under-the-table (illegal).

Adding a work requirement for those getting Medicaid that are capable of working will help encourage some lazy Americans to get off the sofa and work. Far too many Americans have given up looking for work. I have watched with my own eyes Americans being replaced by illegal aliens.

Good news is that since Trump started, I have watched signs go up "Taking Applications", something I have not seen in awhile. And wages are edging up in order to draw workers or keep the younger people in the area.

We have a lot of family businesses that lose out to those that come in and underbid using illegal labor.

You really don't want people who don't obey the law on your property, you can figure the reason on your own.
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