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Old 02-22-2018, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
560 posts, read 990,732 times
Reputation: 588

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First of all, know that I am a centrist, I educate myself on the issues and vote correspondingly, and sometimes my ballot shows it because I'm all over the place and don't vote by party lines.

Immigration:

The liberal media is stirring up fear that we're going to simply deport all the "dreamers", and while what is purported by Trump could be lies, like any politician, I don't think any of us, of any race or nationality, would object with us "taking out the trash" that doesn't belong here while providing means for the balance, and the majority of the dreamers with good intentions the path to citizenship. Would anybody argue with me that this wouldn't be a better place without the gang members, people that don't work and abuse welfare and social services, terrorists, drug dealers, etc?
Wouldn't those with good intentions, those ready and wanting to work and be given the chance to excel, but that are stuck in that grey area where they can't work a legitimate job, be ready to not have to live in fear anymore? To finally be able to step forward knowing that there is a legal path for them to citizenship, and the advancement opportunities that come along with it of which the sky is the limit? This deadlock we have been in for years, is costing everyone grief from the dreamers themselves to the government missing out on taxes from those that could be legitimized and "moving on up", paying into the system.

The hard part about this is in the details and this is where I believe the deadlock is between the democrat and republican parties(that and the Wall. which we'll touch on in a minute). Where do you draw the line? Should a person that was caught using a phony SSN (which is a federal crime) because they wanted to work, be deported when they have an otherwise clean record? I think not. Should a person here illegally, for example, the man that had multiple DWI's, which had still not been deported, and finally broadsided and killed the husband of a couple that was coming home from dinner, be deported? Absolutely. Locally, I know a person that works in housing authority that gets death threats from the drug pushing/using illegals that eventually get booted from the assisted living units, yet the state takes a "it's not our job" stance and mandates "no tattling" when it comes to reporting this trash to immigration and getting this threat taken care of. This shouldn't be happening. I feel that any and every checkpoint should be utilized to round up criminal illegals.
I think if anything, our government needs our thoughts on this and I encourage you to contact your representatives and voice your opinion. In my experience they actually don't receive that much constructive feedback for the amount of people in this country.

The Wall:
The cost of this is going to be massive, or is it? I'm not fond of "the wall" due to cost but our borders need to be far more secure. Then again, we give away the cost of the wall every **two months** in the form of trade deficit with China. Or, for comparison, for what Warren Buffet paid for the entire BNSF railroad, is lost in trade deficit with China every month. I've visited a few places along our southern border and it's a sieve. It needs more surveillance and more protection. Within our country things need to change too. When people overstay their Visa's homeland security needs to be deployed and these people rounded up immediately, unless they have a really good excuse...being hospitalized for instance. If this had been happening years ago, 9-11 may have never happened... The cost of the wall vs. the costs of securing more brave CBP workers to defend, and potentially make the ultimate sacrifice of their lives defending our borders, needs to be taken into account. Just an example and some very rough math, with a wall and good surveillance, depending upon terrain, we could have manned CBP outposts/patrols maybe 10 miles apart. The wall would protect them from being shot from the south side of the border, unlike chain link fence or simply open ground. With 2700 miles to cover at a 10 mile interval, and best to have a couple CBP per outpost/patrol, that's 540 personnel needed. In the current state of our border, with no wall, we're looking at 4-5x the personnel, and at much more risk to them, so maybe it makes sense?
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:21 PM
 
7,797 posts, read 1,816,312 times
Reputation: 3616
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkcarguy View Post
Should a person that was caught using a phony SSN (which is a federal crime) because they wanted to work, be deported when they have an otherwise clean record?

The Wall:
The cost of this is going to be massive, or is it?
Even if they didn't use a phony SSN, they have committed A CRIME by being here. Try going to any country and doing the same. You could 'live in the shadows' but live in fear you'd be caught and deported. When that happens you are usually banned from returning for ten years.

Why should people who have something to offer America, want to become Americans and who do everything 'by the book' be punished? I know people who waited ten years. People with Masters degrees who are highly skilled. Immigration lawyers aren't cheap and fees aren't cheap.

Do we need more illiterate peasants? To pick the few crops that don't use machines (rapidly changing), let employers pay fees and workers pay fees to become Guest Workers. Visas would expire at the end of the season. NO family members allowed. If we can't fit them with tracking devices, make employers responsible for returning them or pay hefty fines.

The Wall will be much cheaper than the cost to taxpayers every year of illegal related expenses. Trump is a builder and will know if he is being gouged pricewise. This is all logical.

Leftists only care about words and feelings.
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:04 PM
 
11,584 posts, read 5,559,958 times
Reputation: 9916
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkcarguy View Post
First of all, know that I am a centrist, I educate myself on the issues and vote correspondingly, and sometimes my ballot shows it because I'm all over the place and don't vote by party lines.

Immigration:

The liberal media is stirring up fear that we're going to simply deport all the "dreamers", and while what is purported by Trump could be lies, like any politician, I don't think any of us, of any race or nationality, would object with us "taking out the trash" that doesn't belong here while providing means for the balance, and the majority of the dreamers with good intentions the path to citizenship. Would anybody argue with me that this wouldn't be a better place without the gang members, people that don't work and abuse welfare and social services, terrorists, drug dealers, etc?
Wouldn't those with good intentions, those ready and wanting to work and be given the chance to excel, but that are stuck in that grey area where they can't work a legitimate job, be ready to not have to live in fear anymore? To finally be able to step forward knowing that there is a legal path for them to citizenship, and the advancement opportunities that come along with it of which the sky is the limit? This deadlock we have been in for years, is costing everyone grief from the dreamers themselves to the government missing out on taxes from those that could be legitimized and "moving on up", paying into the system.

The hard part about this is in the details and this is where I believe the deadlock is between the democrat and republican parties(that and the Wall. which we'll touch on in a minute). Where do you draw the line? Should a person that was caught using a phony SSN (which is a federal crime) because they wanted to work, be deported when they have an otherwise clean record? I think not. Should a person here illegally, for example, the man that had multiple DWI's, which had still not been deported, and finally broadsided and killed the husband of a couple that was coming home from dinner, be deported? Absolutely. Locally, I know a person that works in housing authority that gets death threats from the drug pushing/using illegals that eventually get booted from the assisted living units, yet the state takes a "it's not our job" stance and mandates "no tattling" when it comes to reporting this trash to immigration and getting this threat taken care of. This shouldn't be happening. I feel that any and every checkpoint should be utilized to round up criminal illegals.
I think if anything, our government needs our thoughts on this and I encourage you to contact your representatives and voice your opinion. In my experience they actually don't receive that much constructive feedback for the amount of people in this country.

The Wall:
The cost of this is going to be massive, or is it? I'm not fond of "the wall" due to cost but our borders need to be far more secure. Then again, we give away the cost of the wall every **two months** in the form of trade deficit with China. Or, for comparison, for what Warren Buffet paid for the entire BNSF railroad, is lost in trade deficit with China every month. I've visited a few places along our southern border and it's a sieve. It needs more surveillance and more protection. Within our country things need to change too. When people overstay their Visa's homeland security needs to be deployed and these people rounded up immediately, unless they have a really good excuse...being hospitalized for instance. If this had been happening years ago, 9-11 may have never happened... The cost of the wall vs. the costs of securing more brave CBP workers to defend, and potentially make the ultimate sacrifice of their lives defending our borders, needs to be taken into account. Just an example and some very rough math, with a wall and good surveillance, depending upon terrain, we could have manned CBP outposts/patrols maybe 10 miles apart. The wall would protect them from being shot from the south side of the border, unlike chain link fence or simply open ground. With 2700 miles to cover at a 10 mile interval, and best to have a couple CBP per outpost/patrol, that's 540 personnel needed. In the current state of our border, with no wall, we're looking at 4-5x the personnel, and at much more risk to them, so maybe it makes sense?
Per the first bolded item:

The answer is "No". How is amnestying DACAs fair to those who obeyed our immigration laws and patiently awaited their chance to come here?

When the DACAs turned 18 1/2, they were then considered to be out of status. At that point, it was up to them to work on changing their status, yet so very, very few bothered to do so. After all, their parents set bad examples for them by bringing them here illegally. What their parents taught them was that if you didn't want to do the work to come here legally and be patient until you were granted permission to immigrate, then just thumb your nose at our laws and come anyway. These DACAs were raised without a moral compass. Now they act like they have some right to stay here and are making demands of us.

If they are angry about their situation, then they need to place the blame squarely where it belongs, and that is with their parents.

Life isn't fair. None of us had any control over what our parents did or didn't do to or for us when we were kids. If we reward DACAs for that reason, then why not reward everyone who grew up poor, for example, by giving them a big fat check?

Per the second bolded item.

Absolutely not! That fake SSN could well belong to a living person who gets put in a world of hurt because some DACA used their number. It's as bad as ID theft in that it leaves innocent victims in its wake.

We punish American citizens who commit ID theft. Why should DACAs be let off the hook?

As for the wall --- A couple of BP agents for a 10 mile stretch is not enough when confronted by a huge group of illegals crossing at once. How are 2 agents going to be able to handle that? Need backup? It won't arrive anytime soon.

Some years back, our daughter and son-in-law went to a BP job fair. The agent they talked to minced no words. They were told that if they got the job, they would be on the graveyard shift and be the only agent around for 70 miles. If they called for backup, it would take a very long time for them to get it.

The wall is well worth the money. Bill Clinton had a wall built on the San Diego/Tijuana border. That wall has drastically cut down on illegal crossings and crime.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:24 PM
 
31,915 posts, read 14,699,387 times
Reputation: 8510
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkcarguy View Post
First of all, know that I am a centrist, I educate myself on the issues and vote correspondingly, and sometimes my ballot shows it because I'm all over the place and don't vote by party lines.

Immigration:

The liberal media is stirring up fear that we're going to simply deport all the "dreamers", and while what is purported by Trump could be lies, like any politician, I don't think any of us, of any race or nationality, would object with us "taking out the trash" that doesn't belong here while providing means for the balance, and the majority of the dreamers with good intentions the path to citizenship. Would anybody argue with me that this wouldn't be a better place without the gang members, people that don't work and abuse welfare and social services, terrorists, drug dealers, etc?
Wouldn't those with good intentions, those ready and wanting to work and be given the chance to excel, but that are stuck in that grey area where they can't work a legitimate job, be ready to not have to live in fear anymore? To finally be able to step forward knowing that there is a legal path for them to citizenship, and the advancement opportunities that come along with it of which the sky is the limit? This deadlock we have been in for years, is costing everyone grief from the dreamers themselves to the government missing out on taxes from those that could be legitimized and "moving on up", paying into the system.

The hard part about this is in the details and this is where I believe the deadlock is between the democrat and republican parties(that and the Wall. which we'll touch on in a minute). Where do you draw the line? Should a person that was caught using a phony SSN (which is a federal crime) because they wanted to work, be deported when they have an otherwise clean record? I think not. Should a person here illegally, for example, the man that had multiple DWI's, which had still not been deported, and finally broadsided and killed the husband of a couple that was coming home from dinner, be deported? Absolutely. Locally, I know a person that works in housing authority that gets death threats from the drug pushing/using illegals that eventually get booted from the assisted living units, yet the state takes a "it's not our job" stance and mandates "no tattling" when it comes to reporting this trash to immigration and getting this threat taken care of. This shouldn't be happening. I feel that any and every checkpoint should be utilized to round up criminal illegals.
I think if anything, our government needs our thoughts on this and I encourage you to contact your representatives and voice your opinion. In my experience they actually don't receive that much constructive feedback for the amount of people in this country.

The Wall:
The cost of this is going to be massive, or is it? I'm not fond of "the wall" due to cost but our borders need to be far more secure. Then again, we give away the cost of the wall every **two months** in the form of trade deficit with China. Or, for comparison, for what Warren Buffet paid for the entire BNSF railroad, is lost in trade deficit with China every month. I've visited a few places along our southern border and it's a sieve. It needs more surveillance and more protection. Within our country things need to change too. When people overstay their Visa's homeland security needs to be deployed and these people rounded up immediately, unless they have a really good excuse...being hospitalized for instance. If this had been happening years ago, 9-11 may have never happened... The cost of the wall vs. the costs of securing more brave CBP workers to defend, and potentially make the ultimate sacrifice of their lives defending our borders, needs to be taken into account. Just an example and some very rough math, with a wall and good surveillance, depending upon terrain, we could have manned CBP outposts/patrols maybe 10 miles apart. The wall would protect them from being shot from the south side of the border, unlike chain link fence or simply open ground. With 2700 miles to cover at a 10 mile interval, and best to have a couple CBP per outpost/patrol, that's 540 personnel needed. In the current state of our border, with no wall, we're looking at 4-5x the personnel, and at much more risk to them, so maybe it makes sense?

There are many of us that disagree with you that we should allow the Dreamers or any other illegal alien to remain here and certainly not give them citizenship. Reasons why have been voiced in here numerous times.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Eastern Shore of Maryland
5,941 posts, read 2,510,000 times
Reputation: 5609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
There are many of us that disagree with you that we should allow the Dreamers to remain here and certainly not give them citizenship. Reasons why have been voiced in here numerous times.

I came here as an Immigrant after my Father was liberated as a prisoner of war from a German Prison Camp, where he was a Prisoner of War. He did service in the British Army, after release, and applied to come to the US. I was 5 years old, and after High School, I applied for Citizenship. It took me 5 years, by the time I got finished jumping through the paperwork and procedures. I had to know English, Know who was President, , know about how the Government works, and who represented me in the State I lived in, and other facts. I did not sneak across a Border or by pass the procedures legal applicants have to follow to come here. It is an insult to let Illegal Aliens by pass all of this and to put them ahead of people who follow the Law. If they want Citizenship, they should have to apply for being allowed to come here, and follow all the Laws that Govern any legal Immigrant that applies for Citizenship.


I know the Liberal Socialist Democratic Agenda is to by pass all the legalities so they can have a larger dedicated Voter Base, but that's not the American way. The Law is the Law, and we don't get to choose which ones we follow or want to obey. Also, Illegal Aliens are costing the Taxpayers Billions of dollars every year, sucking the life out of our Social Nets and Medical Care expense they don't pay for.


If Democrat Liberals want a Nation where they can pick and choose which Laws to obey, they may end up not liking which Laws the rest of us decide not to obey.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Cape Cod
9,925 posts, read 7,189,607 times
Reputation: 18147
I think if you ask anyone that has been the victim of identity theft if the jerk that took theirs is a criminal they would say yes.

Identity theft, committing fraud to collect welfare these are not victimless crimes and it is worse when someone that should not even be here is taking advantage of our generosity.


Why do we allow these so called "dreamers" to stay?
President Trump said it best when said that Americans are Dreamers too.
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