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Old 03-03-2018, 08:28 PM
 
31,489 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
We need a program to bring in temporary and seasonal work and give the workers benefits. Note: the illegals are, for the most part, taking jobs in such fields as engineering, nursing, and law; that Americans want.

What temporary and seasonal jobs are you speaking of? For agricultural jobs there are already unlimited H-2A visas.
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Old 03-03-2018, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Exeter, NH
5,200 posts, read 4,205,839 times
Reputation: 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
We most certainly had "fair wages" back in the 50s and 60s. Where did you get that idea? Perhaps that was before you were born? During the 50s and 60s families lived quite well on one salary. For example, I had a friend whose father worked in construction. The area where we lived had rough winters so construction all but came to a halt during that season. Her father didn't work in the winter and her mother was a stay at home mom. The family did just fine because he made enough money the rest of the year to put money aside to manage quite well in the winter.
Correct -- Americans had fair (meaning very good) wages right up until about 1970. At that point, wages stagnated while taxes & cost of living continued to climb. Productivity gains were 100% taken by businesses, whereas before this time, they were split 50/50 between labor and capitalists.

With the early Baby Boomers (born in the late 1940s to mid 1950s), a truck driver with no college degree could support a family of 4 comfortably, and retire at 62 with a fat pension (that included full health care insurance for all of retirement, spouse included) & Social Security & a paid-off house bought when they were incredibly cheap (now worth a fortune when sold). Compare that to the very tail end of the Baby Boom (those of us born in the early 1960s), where you needed not only 2 wage earners, but both of them had to be professionals with college and graduate degrees, working insane hours under incredibly stressful conditions for corporations that purposely destroyed morale. Even then, if you were among the 50% that lived to retirement at the government's designated age of 67, you still had no financial stability--pensions had disappeared, skyrocketing health insurance costs had been mostly shifted to you the employee, and health care costs were statistically going to cost more than 99.9% of us had been able to save.

Why was 1970 the time when the great, prosperous American working class began to be destroyed? I blame most of it on the massive unskilled immigration surge caused by the 1965 immigration law changes, which ended the tightly restricted immigration that primarily allowed in highly-productive groups from Europe, and replaced it with the open-door immigration policy (combined with ignoring illegal immigration) that allowed a tidal wage of unskilled labor coming from Mexico and points south. This swamped the labor pool, and wiped out the bargaining power of labor, in about 5 years (bringing us to 1970). The influx of huge families of desperately poor people also sent the tax burden skyrocketing, with expensive public education and welfare needed for "needy" masses flowing in (very high birthrates in these populations). And we now know that those immigrants never integrated into the economy (like the pre-1965 immigrants had), and even today remain largely unskilled and dependent on the endless taxpayer-funded programs administered by local, state and federal government (which happily grew to meet the "need").
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:53 AM
 
3,002 posts, read 1,965,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
Correct -- Americans had fair (meaning very good) wages right up until about 1970. At that point, wages stagnated while taxes & cost of living continued to climb. Productivity gains were 100% taken by businesses, whereas before this time, they were split 50/50 between labor and capitalists.

With the early Baby Boomers (born in the late 1940s to mid 1950s), a truck driver with no college degree could support a family of 4 comfortably, and retire at 62 with a fat pension (that included full health care insurance for all of retirement, spouse included) & Social Security & a paid-off house bought when they were incredibly cheap (now worth a fortune when sold). Compare that to the very tail end of the Baby Boom (those of us born in the early 1960s), where you needed not only 2 wage earners, but both of them had to be professionals with college and graduate degrees, working insane hours under incredibly stressful conditions for corporations that purposely destroyed morale. Even then, if you were among the 50% that lived to retirement at the government's designated age of 67, you still had no financial stability--pensions had disappeared, skyrocketing health insurance costs had been mostly shifted to you the employee, and health care costs were statistically going to cost more than 99.9% of us had been able to save.

Why was 1970 the time when the great, prosperous American working class began to be destroyed? I blame most of it on the massive unskilled immigration surge caused by the 1965 immigration law changes, which ended the tightly restricted immigration that primarily allowed in highly-productive groups from Europe, and replaced it with the open-door immigration policy (combined with ignoring illegal immigration) that allowed a tidal wage of unskilled labor coming from Mexico and points south. This swamped the labor pool, and wiped out the bargaining power of labor, in about 5 years (bringing us to 1970). The influx of huge families of desperately poor people also sent the tax burden skyrocketing, with expensive public education and welfare needed for "needy" masses flowing in (very high birthrates in these populations). And we now know that those immigrants never integrated into the economy (like the pre-1965 immigrants had), and even today remain largely unskilled and dependent on the endless taxpayer-funded programs administered by local, state and federal government (which happily grew to meet the "need").

Lot of what your talking about has nothing to do with illegal labor and more to do with union busting. Unions were driven out of the trucking industry years ago most drivers are not illegal who work for companies like Swift trucking. In the construction industry I do agree that unions were driven out by the use of illegal labor. The thing companies over looked was union's helped train their own had new younger hard working employees to fill the rolls. The complaint now I hear is young kids don't want to do manual labor they want to play games on a computer that is because they busted unions and their apprentice programs.
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Old 03-04-2018, 11:53 AM
 
31,489 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490 View Post
Lot of what your talking about has nothing to do with illegal labor and more to do with union busting. Unions were driven out of the trucking industry years ago most drivers are not illegal who work for companies like Swift trucking. In the construction industry I do agree that unions were driven out by the use of illegal labor. The thing companies over looked was union's helped train their own had new younger hard working employees to fill the rolls. The complaint now I hear is young kids don't want to do manual labor they want to play games on a computer that is because they busted unions and their apprentice programs.

Complaints by whom? Probably the employers who want the cheap, exploitable illegal labor over our own American youth. Sure we have some lazy Americans both young and old but they certainly don't represent the majority.
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Old 03-04-2018, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
526 posts, read 412,279 times
Reputation: 945
I lived in southern California my whole life until I moved to Portland about 4 1/2 years ago. When I was young, all the low paying, low status jobs were done by Americans. I worked at McDonalds for my last 2 years of high school. All the employees were native born, English speaking people, both "white" and latino. But sometime starting in the 1980's, it all changed. Since then, most service jobs are held by immigrants, mostly from Latin America. When I moved to Portland, I was shocked to see "white" American janitors, hotel maids, and fast food workers. There are not many Latin American immigrants, whether legal or illegal, in Portland. So I can tell you, Americans will do those jobs.
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:18 AM
 
200 posts, read 375,118 times
Reputation: 251
Sometimes i miss the days of washing dishes and doing housekeeping in the hospital cafe. It was such an easy stress free job. Pop my headphones in and start working.

Well since President Trump is cutting welfare benefits people are going to be forced to look for jobs.
Tons of people don't want to go to school they rather work.
High school kids that wants an evening job.
Someone who just lost their job. We have factories that are closing down and i am sure those people would love to wash dishes or work as an housekeeper.


If these jobs pay a livable wage and offer benefits and retirements they will have no problem finding help.
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
526 posts, read 412,279 times
Reputation: 945
The other factor is that the massive amount of illegal immigration has pushed down wages in almost all low skilled jobs. The only politician I know of that has even brought this issue up is Trump. I follow the news regularly, and for years never heard anyone, Democrat or Republican, mention this. There were always a handful of Republicans that were against illegal immigration, but I don't remember any of them speaking about the problem from the point of view of wages. This allowed Democrats to paint them as racist, which weakened the anti-illegal immigration argument. Trump comes along and he mostly has framed it in economic terms, and its impact on working Americans. Although the media is still mostly one sided and sympathetic to illegal aliens, the tide seems to be turning. You now hear news reports that paint illegal immigration in a bad light, something you almost never saw before. One of the reasons the Democrats are determined to get rid of Trump is that he has turned the conversation around on this issue and it's resonating with more and more Americans. The Democrats will do just about anything to protect their future voting block.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Northwest Peninsula
2,618 posts, read 1,352,315 times
Reputation: 1375
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeutralZone View Post
The other factor is that the massive amount of illegal immigration has pushed down wages in almost all low skilled jobs. The only politician I know of that has even brought this issue up is Trump. I follow the news regularly, and for years never heard anyone, Democrat or Republican, mention this. There were always a handful of Republicans that were against illegal immigration, but I don't remember any of them speaking about the problem from the point of view of wages. This allowed Democrats to paint them as racist, which weakened the anti-illegal immigration argument. Trump comes along and he mostly has framed it in economic terms, and its impact on working Americans. Although the media is still mostly one sided and sympathetic to illegal aliens, the tide seems to be turning. You now hear news reports that paint illegal immigration in a bad light, something you almost never saw before. One of the reasons the Democrats are determined to get rid of Trump is that he has turned the conversation around on this issue and it's resonating with more and more Americans. The Democrats will do just about anything to protect their future voting block.
True and when democrats bring race into any mix it usually shuts down any meaningful conversation. Liberals/progressives/democrats are good at that.
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Old 03-08-2018, 06:05 PM
 
3,002 posts, read 1,965,225 times
Reputation: 3346
Check this video out


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq4WBOkFNtE
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