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Old 02-25-2018, 02:51 PM
 
Location: I is where I is
1,922 posts, read 1,296,853 times
Reputation: 2102

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
There is nothing directly effecting me regarding illegals. However, I do have friends and family who have gone through the immigration process, are going through the process as we speak and those who want to, but don't qualify.

It's about a few things for me:

1) Fairness, even Obama mentioned, it is not fair for people to essentially skip the line and fees and bypass the burdensome system that takes sometimes an entire decade on top of mountains of paper work, thousands of dollars in lawyer fees etc. It simple is not fair to them. It's also not fair to those who want to move here, but don't qualify for any specific visa, they don't have criminal records, they are college educated, yet they cannot come, I have many friends in the Philippines who would love to move here and they do have bachelor degrees. On a personal level, this is my number one reason I'm against illegal immigration and especially providing them in-state benefits.

2) Security, when you travel to other countries you are inspected, when you relocate to another country, it's a whole other level of verification on who you are, why you are here, what is your history etc. If we just say, "hey if you sneak into the country, you're home free" it raises major security concerns.

3) Law, we are a country of laws like all other developed countries. We have these laws to keep us safe, strong and prosperous.

4) Distractions, having illegal immigration always in our headwinds makes it so we don't deal with the real problem, our legal immigration system, which as mentioned easily takes a decade in many scenarios with people switching lawyers 3x paying thousands in fees and getting the ring around. We should focus on how to make our immigration system for efficient, but illegal immigration is eating up all our resources to do this.
You’re fighting a losing battle friend.

This is the SF forum, you should know this by now

 
Old 02-25-2018, 02:58 PM
 
Location: USA
16,564 posts, read 16,220,686 times
Reputation: 12523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg10556 View Post
You’re fighting a losing battle friend.

This is the SF forum, you should know this by now
lol you're right
 
Old 02-25-2018, 03:54 PM
 
Location: On the water.
10,309 posts, read 6,371,527 times
Reputation: 8590
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
There is nothing directly effecting me regarding illegals. However, I do have friends and family who have gone through the immigration process, are going through the process as we speak and those who want to, but don't qualify.

It's about a few things for me:

1) Fairness, even Obama mentioned, it is not fair for people to essentially skip the line and fees and bypass the burdensome system that takes sometimes an entire decade on top of mountains of paper work, thousands of dollars in lawyer fees etc. It simple is not fair to them. It's also not fair to those who want to move here, but don't qualify for any specific visa, they don't have criminal records, they are college educated, yet they cannot come, I have many friends in the Philippines who would love to move here and they do have bachelor degrees. On a personal level, this is my number one reason I'm against illegal immigration and especially providing them in-state benefits.

2) Security, when you travel to other countries you are inspected, when you relocate to another country, it's a whole other level of verification on who you are, why you are here, what is your history etc. If we just say, "hey if you sneak into the country, you're home free" it raises major security concerns.

3) Law, we are a country of laws like all other developed countries. We have these laws to keep us safe, strong and prosperous.

4) Distractions, having illegal immigration always in our headwinds makes it so we don't deal with the real problem, our legal immigration system, which as mentioned easily takes a decade in many scenarios with people switching lawyers 3x paying thousands in fees and getting the ring around. We should focus on how to make our immigration system for efficient, but illegal immigration is eating up all our resources to do this.
And you are sure others here favor illegal immigration?
... are not concerned with security?
... are not respectful of the theory of law?
... enjoy the distraction and costs of illegal immigration?

Where did you get those ideas? Most all Americans - probably at least in the mid-90% or higher don't approve of illegal immigration. All are concerned with security. Nearly all respect law. Nearly all are sick and tired of the wastefulness of time, energy, and money of the immigration flaws and debates. You're not in the slightest unique. And it doesn't affect you in particular any more than most of the rest of us.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 04:03 PM
 
Location: USA
16,564 posts, read 16,220,686 times
Reputation: 12523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
And you are sure others here favor illegal immigration?
... are not concerned with security?
... are not respectful of the theory of law?
... enjoy the distraction and costs of illegal immigration?

Where did you get those ideas? Most all Americans - probably at least in the mid-90% or higher don't approve of illegal immigration. All are concerned with security. Nearly all respect law. Nearly all are sick and tired of the wastefulness of time, energy, and money of the immigration flaws and debates. You're not in the slightest unique. And it doesn't affect you in particular any more than most of the rest of us.
So are you saying you agree with me that illegal immigration shouldn't be accepted and those who break the law based on the reasons I listed should be sent home?
 
Old 02-25-2018, 04:35 PM
 
Location: On the water.
10,309 posts, read 6,371,527 times
Reputation: 8590
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
So are you saying you agree with me that illegal immigration shouldn't be accepted and those who break the law based on the reasons I listed should be sent home?
No. I agree illegal immigration shouldn't be accepted.

And, further, I probably am even more any-kind-of-immigration intolerant than you.

However, with regard to “sending home” persons who are productive to our society now that they have worked their way in - I feel it is imperative to our economy and to any sense of human morality to consider how and why they got here under our flawed system and our oppressive effects on their home countries in some cases ... and to recreate an actual system to adhere to strictly in the future. What we have been doing is a charade. We quite literally asked for many of these people to come in.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Boydton, VA
2,093 posts, read 2,693,098 times
Reputation: 3744
So, I left CA in the mid 70's due to taxation issues. CA residents are known far and wide for their distaste of new taxes....who will make up for the shortfall in the CA tax coffers when the $3B in annual taxes from undocumented immigrants disappears ?

11 million undocumented immigrants living and working in the United States contribute more than $11.74 billion in state and local taxes..

DACA eligible undocumented immigrants alone contribute $2B in state and local taxes.

Why not give them all a path to citizenship without deportation ?

Regards
Gemstone1
 
Old 02-25-2018, 05:02 PM
 
3,852 posts, read 1,594,099 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
You are arguing for DACA, the GOP is willing to accept DACA, the issue is in return Democrats arent willing to fund the wall nor are they willing to reform Our legal immigration system and handling of illegal immigration. That is the issue, both parties are fine with DACA, the problem is wanting to have a merit based system along with funding for the border wall.
It would be better to make the border more porous again so Mexican Nationals can move over and then back on a seasonal basis. The increase in undocumented peoples came about when the border security was tightened. Now, once in, they stay b/c going back and forth is not so easy. Our economy depends on these workers and they depend on the work. Besides, a wall is going to cost $15+Billion to build and then billions a year to maintain and man with security. Also, there is this new technology called airplanes. They fly over walls.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 05:31 PM
 
Location: USA
16,564 posts, read 16,220,686 times
Reputation: 12523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakformonday View Post
It would be better to make the border more porous again so Mexican Nationals can move over and then back on a seasonal basis. The increase in undocumented peoples came about when the border security was tightened. Now, once in, they stay b/c going back and forth is not so easy. Our economy depends on these workers and they depend on the work. Besides, a wall is going to cost $15+Billion to build and then billions a year to maintain and man with security. Also, there is this new technology called airplanes. They fly over walls.
1) Legally entering the country with a border wall will be no different than currently... the wall just makes it more difficult to illegally cross into the country. All the prototype walls that were built at the test site passed all tests.

2) Illegal immigration is already down something like 80%, I forgot the exact figure, but it should be easy to find and that is because of the Administration's strict stance on illegal immigration not being tolerated. Coyotes now charge a lot more because it is more difficult and the penalties are more strict. Mexico is having a crisis where people from Central America are illegally entering Mexico and not even trying to cross in the US.

3) I agree seasonal work is very important to our economy, which is why we need to shut off the illegal immigration route and use our resources to revamp our immigration system, making it more efficient, making it easier to get a temporary work visa etc.

4) The worst thing we can do is make it seem like, "hey guys, if you illegally enter the country, we are passing laws to give you drivers licenses, in-state tuition, free education for your children and if you get caught, we will even pay for your lawyer fees" ...why even have an immigration system then?

5) Speaking about the cost to build the wall, with tougher penalties and no protections for illegals in addition to a border wall, we will save a lot of money that the wall will pay off in probably 10-15 years easily. However, I'd support it even if it didn't pay off. There is a lot of things our tax dollars go to that I hate, yet I still have to pay taxes.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 05:37 PM
 
Location: USA
16,564 posts, read 16,220,686 times
Reputation: 12523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
No. I agree illegal immigration shouldn't be accepted.

And, further, I probably am even more any-kind-of-immigration intolerant than you.

However, with regard to “sending home” persons who are productive to our society now that they have worked their way in - I feel it is imperative to our economy and to any sense of human morality to consider how and why they got here under our flawed system and our oppressive effects on their home countries in some cases ... and to recreate an actual system to adhere to strictly in the future. What we have been doing is a charade. We quite literally asked for many of these people to come in.
I have sympathy for the children who had no choice when they were brought into the country illegally. However, if we really want to have real reform with illegal immigration and our immigration system, we need to pass things the Administration is talking about from merit based immigration like most developed countries have to ending chain migration to tougher positions on future illegals etc. We need these things, but they will never happen because every president has promised to reform the system from both parties, but it never happens. I think it's smart to use the "dreamers" as... "ok, we will allow them to stay in the country and give them legal status, but we need to make sure this doesn't happen again, so in return we need X, Y and Z." If Democrats say no, we would rather let them be kicked out in hopes for political gains, it will send a clear message that the US is no longer messing around with illegal immigration if we were to deport "dreamers," so either way will work, but I'd rather Democrats put politics aside and do what's right instead of having them kicked out in hopes it brings wins in the future.

That is essentially what is going on and Democrats aren't having it, they want DACA with no real change to prevent this from boiling over again.

Last edited by bmw335xi; 02-25-2018 at 05:52 PM..
 
Old 02-25-2018, 05:46 PM
 
16,785 posts, read 19,628,561 times
Reputation: 33226
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Exactly, so let's 'detect' them and 'check' them by deporting the criminals and putting the millions of productive undocumented residents who contribute to the US on a path to permanent status, even if that means fines.

But who benefits by deporting an RN who OWNS a home and has 2 kids at UC? No one.

So present us with a common sense plan that makes sense or prepare to lose miserably when this issue is finally resolved, because you will not win.
Can you explain(I'm not trying to be snarky here) how someone can work as RN in the US and not be a US citizen or here on work visa? Who is here illegally?

Unless they stole someone else's SS number I don't see how that is possible in a job like that.

I know two RN's who are here on work visas.
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