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Old 02-25-2018, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
31,575 posts, read 53,103,852 times
Reputation: 14495

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
No. I agree illegal immigration shouldn't be accepted.

And, further, I probably am even more any-kind-of-immigration intolerant than you.

However, with regard to “sending home” persons who are productive to our society now that they have worked their way in - I feel it is imperative to our economy and to any sense of human morality to consider how and why they got here under our flawed system and our oppressive effects on their home countries in some cases ... and to recreate an actual system to adhere to strictly in the future. What we have been doing is a charade. We quite literally asked for many of these people to come in.
+1

The 'solutions' they offer are excercises in absolute stupidity and totally nonsensical.

 
Old 02-25-2018, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
16,736 posts, read 20,470,484 times
Reputation: 30720
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
There is nothing directly effecting me regarding illegals. However, I do have friends and family who have gone through the immigration process, are going through the process as we speak and those who want to, but don't qualify.

It's about a few things for me:

1) Fairness, even Obama mentioned, it is not fair for people to essentially skip the line and fees and bypass the burdensome system that takes sometimes an entire decade on top of mountains of paper work, thousands of dollars in lawyer fees etc. It simple is not fair to them. It's also not fair to those who want to move here, but don't qualify for any specific visa, they don't have criminal records, they are college educated, yet they cannot come, I have many friends in the Philippines who would love to move here and they do have bachelor degrees. On a personal level, this is my number one reason I'm against illegal immigration and especially providing them in-state benefits.

2) Security, when you travel to other countries you are inspected, when you relocate to another country, it's a whole other level of verification on who you are, why you are here, what is your history etc. If we just say, "hey if you sneak into the country, you're home free" it raises major security concerns.

3) Law, we are a country of laws like all other developed countries. We have these laws to keep us safe, strong and prosperous.

4) Distractions, having illegal immigration always in our headwinds makes it so we don't deal with the real problem, our legal immigration system, which as mentioned easily takes a decade in many scenarios with people switching lawyers 3x paying thousands in fees and getting the ring around. We should focus on how to make our immigration system for efficient, but illegal immigration is eating up all our resources to do this.
Well said. I actually agree with all of these points.

I guess where we disagree is on how to deal with the illegal immigrants/undocumented residents in a fair manner. Rounding them all up and sending them "back," without due process - or a fair process - and especially DACA recipients (who have all been vetted vigorously), is what I very much disagree with.

But, you see - we actually agree on more than we disagree about. How about that?
 
Old 02-25-2018, 07:03 PM
 
Location: On the water.
10,325 posts, read 6,375,988 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post

2) Illegal immigration is already down something like 80%, I forgot the exact figure, but it should be easy to find and that is because of the Administration's strict stance on illegal immigration not being tolerated. Coyotes now charge a lot more because it is more difficult and the penalties are more strict. Mexico is having a crisis where people from Central America are illegally entering Mexico and not even trying to cross in the US.
.
Your point #2 above in particular shows you have blinders on. Illegal immigration isn't down much at all because of your hero the Donald. It's been going down drastically for years before he showed up. Because of the American recession and then the improving Mexican economy - and the Obama administration's efforts. Chump's administration has been terrorizing a variety of productive undocumented. Obama focused on criminal elements.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 07:05 PM
 
Location: On the water.
10,325 posts, read 6,375,988 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
Well said. I actually agree with all of these points.

I guess where we disagree is on how to deal with the illegal immigrants/undocumented residents in a fair manner. Rounding them all up and sending them "back," without due process - or a fair process - and especially DACA recipients (who have all been vetted vigorously), is what I very much disagree with.

But, you see - we actually agree on more than we disagree about. How about that?
Another example of my earlier point: pretty much everyone agrees with those positions. Don't know where bmw gets his assumption otherwise.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 07:07 PM
 
Location: America's Expensive Toilet
927 posts, read 641,292 times
Reputation: 1834
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemstone1 View Post

Why not give them all a path to citizenship without deportation ?
My only problem with this is it shows that we're a country of talkers, not law enforcers. What's the point of even having the laws if we're not going to enforce them? By just giving people a slap on the wrist and then welcoming them in to receive citizenship sends the wrong message and doesn't stop the problem. Not only that, but it's a slap in the face to the line of people standing in line to obtain legal citizenship the right, lawful way.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
16,736 posts, read 20,470,484 times
Reputation: 30720
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
I have sympathy for the children who had no choice when they were brought into the country illegally. However, if we really want to have real reform with illegal immigration and our immigration system, we need to pass things the Administration is talking about from merit based immigration like most developed countries have to ending chain migration to tougher positions on future illegals etc. We need these things, but they will never happen because every president has promised to reform the system from both parties, but it never happens. I think it's smart to use the "dreamers" as... "ok, we will allow them to stay in the country and give them legal status, but we need to make sure this doesn't happen again, so in return we need X, Y and Z." If Democrats say no, we would rather let them be kicked out in hopes for political gains, it will send a clear message that the US is no longer messing around with illegal immigration if we were to deport "dreamers," so either way will work, but I'd rather Democrats put politics aside and do what's right instead of having them kicked out in hopes it brings wins in the future.

That is essentially what is going on and Democrats aren't having it, they want DACA with no real change to prevent this from boiling over again.
What we would be creating then, though, are American refugees, basically. What on earth would these people do in reality? Imagine never seeing Mexico before, and many of them don't even speak Spanish because often the kids don't want to speak Spanish. They may understand it, but not speak it. My best friend in high school was like this. Her mother spoke to her in Spanish, as did her grandfather, but she only ever responded in English.

They've only lived in America, have always worked here, many are educated. Many have never been to Mexico (just using Mexicans as an example). So, what happens? They get driven to the border and the guards stand there so they can't turn around. Then what? The Mexican border officers stare at them and ask for visas? And if they don't have them? What happens? They get taken to jail? Where do they live? How do they get Mexican legal representation without any resources? Will they be safe?

Using them as political hostages is just cruel. I think the White House needs to just rule first on letting these guys become citizens. Then, move on to deal with the main problems. America doesn't just toss out it's people who have grown up here like some refugees of war.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 07:17 PM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,421 posts, read 16,681,935 times
Reputation: 16425
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Wrong. Obama deported hundreds of thousands of people but he also correctly put many( dreamers) on a path to legal status. That's the right thing to do.

Our current asshat-in-chief is a hypocrite who readily uses foreign labor to make his own merchandise and didnt give 2 shts about employing foreign laborers himself, but now as a politician is a flagwaving xenophobe? Yawns yeah right

He's throwing a fit because CA doesnt gaf about his funding threats and needs to appear heavy handed to the racist morons who support this cold hearted tactic.
A reason, along with all the incoheriant rambling and hate, that I should get the heck out of hateland and go back to California, and civilization. I don't care to make friends here in Oklahoma. Nothing to talk about. Short of that everyone needs to speak out against the hatred expressed in the current occupation.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
16,736 posts, read 20,470,484 times
Reputation: 30720
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
A reason, along with all the incoheriant rambling and hate, that I should get the heck out of hateland and go back to California, and civilization. I don't care to make friends here in Oklahoma. Nothing to talk about. Short of that everyone needs to speak out against the hatred expressed in the current occupation.
Love to have you back.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 08:34 PM
 
16,785 posts, read 19,633,393 times
Reputation: 33226
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Exactly, so let's 'detect' them and 'check' them by deporting the criminals and putting the millions of productive undocumented residents who contribute to the US on a path to permanent status, even if that means fines.

But who benefits by deporting an RN who OWNS a home and has 2 kids at UC? No one.

So present us with a common sense plan that makes sense or prepare to lose miserably when this issue is finally resolved, because you will not win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seain dublin View Post
Can you explain(I'm not trying to be snarky here) how someone can work as RN in the US and not be a US citizen or here on work visa? Who is here illegally?

Unless they stole someone else's SS number I don't see how that is possible in a job like that.

I know two RN's who are here on work visas.
I see you couldn't answer the question Montclair.

As the saying goes "no answer is the answer".

You can't work here as RN unless you're here on work visa if you're not a citizen. So I have to wonder how many illegals who cross the border are working as an RN or other professional positions? Unless they're using someone else's SS number, which is major fraud.

Perhaps you should have picked a service industry position for your example.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 09:58 PM
 
Location: On the water.
10,325 posts, read 6,375,988 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by seain dublin View Post
I see you couldn't answer the question Montclair.

As the saying goes "no answer is the answer".

You can't work here as RN unless you're here on work visa if you're not a citizen. So I have to wonder how many illegals who cross the border are working as an RN or other professional positions? Unless they're using someone else's SS number, which is major fraud.

Perhaps you should have picked a service industry position for your example.
Hey seain, you live in LA. How come you're commenting about an issue in the Bay Area?
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