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Old 04-25-2018, 05:21 PM
 
11,927 posts, read 9,678,464 times
Reputation: 16341

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
Oh, I understand perfectly.

I know that under Obama, ICE employees' morale plummeted. Obama also did away with 287(g). If you don't know what that was about, you can google it.

I'm not talking about DACA either

I'm talking about how ICE was prevented from doing their jobs under Obama.

As for the term "illegal alien" --- that's what the federal government calls them:

http://www.fairus.org/sites/default/...egal-Alien.pdf

"Undocumented immigrant" is just a euphemism.
... Your link is about issues ICE employees apparently had with DACA.

287(g) is a voluntary program that no state agency has any obligation to participate in. I can see you are still confused, so I will explain again - it is not the states' job to help the feds enforce immigration laws. 287(g) is a program that allows the state LEOs to help the feds, they basically become ICE agents themselves in a sense, but it's voluntary and by no means a legal obligation. 287(g) is kind of irrelevant in a discussion about the states' role in immigration enforcement (which this thread is about) because its existence doesn't change the fact that the states do not have to help the feds enforce immigration laws. According to the ICE website, some agencies in only 20 states are involved with 287(g). Given the sheer number of law enforcement agencies in the states, at all levels, the list of 287(g) participants on the ICE website is short.

Nothing that you said changes the facts that I stated, which is that presidents set priorities for deportation and that Obama targeted mostly those convicted of serious crimes for deportation, though at the beginning had a policy more similar to Trump's but not as expansive.

I don't really know why you're arguing with me.

Last edited by JerseyGirl415; 04-25-2018 at 05:39 PM..
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Old 04-25-2018, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,325 posts, read 13,811,097 times
Reputation: 11491
How can the left support #metoo and women’s marches and protecting child rapists ?
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Old 04-25-2018, 05:45 PM
 
11,575 posts, read 5,555,146 times
Reputation: 9908
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
... Your link is about issues ICE employees apparently had with DACA.

287(g) is a voluntary program that no state agency has any obligation to participate in. I can see you are still confused, so I will explain again - it is not the states' job to help the feds enforce immigration laws. 287(g) is a program that allows the state LEOs to help the feds, they basically become ICE agents themselves in a sense, but it's voluntary and by no means a legal obligation. 287(g) is kind of irrelevant in a discussion about the states' role in immigration enforcement (which this thread is about). According to the ICE website, some agencies in only 20 states are involved with 287(g). Given the sheer number of law enforcement agencies in the states, at all levels, the list of 287(g) participants on the ICE website is short.

Nothing that you said changes the facts that I stated, which is that presidents set priorities for deportation and that Obama targeted mostly those convicted of serious crimes for deportation, though at the beginning had a policy more similar to Trump's but not as expansive.

I don't really know why you're arguing with me.
So...DACA was mentioned in the article, and...? The point was that Obama was telling ICE to not deport any illegals who were in the age group eligible for DACA---whether or not they applied for DACA.

Here is another article that doesn't just focus solely on DACA:

https://hotair.com/archives/2015/02/...oing-your-job/

The point is that Obama did indeed prevent ICE from doing their jobs.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rump/99455428/

I never said that it was the state's job to arrest illegals. However, blocking the feds from doing their jobs by creating sanctuary jurisdictions is what the topic is about.

I'm not arguing with you at all. Apologies for posting an article that happened to mention DACA.
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Old 04-25-2018, 06:19 PM
 
11,927 posts, read 9,678,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
So...DACA was mentioned in the article, and...? The point was that Obama was telling ICE to not deport any illegals who were in the age group eligible for DACA---whether or not they applied for DACA.

Here is another article that doesn't just focus solely on DACA:

https://hotair.com/archives/2015/02/...oing-your-job/

The point is that Obama did indeed prevent ICE from doing their jobs.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rump/99455428/

I never said that it was the state's job to arrest illegals. However, blocking the feds from doing their jobs by creating sanctuary jurisdictions is what the topic is about.

I'm not arguing with you at all. Apologies for posting an article that happened to mention DACA.
My confusion here exists because nothing in the article or your posts change what I said, so I don't know why you brought up the article in the first place. I said that presidents set their own priorities for deportation, which is true, and I also said that by the end, Obama prioritized mostly those convicted of serious offenses - which is true. The OP/article linked in the OP is about states' role in enforcing immigration, with the article AND the OP insinuating that some states aren't "doing their jobs" when the reality is it is NOT the states' jobs to enforce immigration law. So the very title of the thread is misleading, and your earlier posts seemed to not understand that. The states are also not blocking the feds from doing their jobs. Because the states have no obligation to help in the first place, choosing to do absolutely nothing to help is not blocking the feds from doing their jobs. It is doing exactly what they are required to do - nothing. The feds have their own ways of finding and arresting people, and they do so.

This problem may have never gotten so out of hand in the first place if our laws were slightly different or if past administrations did more to curb illegal immigration and enforce the laws before the problem got as large as it is. The feds screwed up probably along many lines in the past on this issue, and the states don't have to lift a finger to help them clean it up. I, too, would like to see the states do more but they don't have to, and they shouldn't have to unless they want to because it costs state resources and money to do so. Any suggestion that states aren't doing "their jobs," like the title of the thread, is just plain wrong, so I will point it out.

It is arguable that Obama prevented ICE from doing its job. One, ICE has a very difficult job to do, and will probably never have enough funding or employees to ever entirely do it, meaning enforce the immigration laws against everyone. Even with Obama's restrictions, there were PLENTY of people for ICE to arrest and try to deport, and immigration court moved slowly then like it still does now and probably always has. I wonder how much ICE workers were actually affected by DACA. Perhaps they had to work a little harder to target those who WEREN'T a certain age, but sorry, that IS their job, speaking of jobs. And two, the INA lays out a list of those who are deportable but there is freedom in HOW exactly it is enforced, that's just the way it is. Yeah, liberal presidents will tend to be more lenient, while conservative ones will tend to be more harsh. But that's fine, the courts will keep them in check if necessary.
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Old 04-25-2018, 06:27 PM
 
71,504 posts, read 30,197,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
How can the left support #metoo and womenís marches and protecting child rapists ?
If someone rapes a child (or anyone) they go to prison. You have to simply make stuff up but no one will answer my question.

Before it went like this. The state checked with federal immigration officials and upon learning the person was here illegally they were told to hold them as the federal government doesn't have the ability to do so. This costs the states a lot of money. (money tax cuts won't pay for). They get their day in court and get out until a hearing can be set. They go back to their job.

If they happen to actually show up to their hearing and if they happen to get deported, they simply turn around and return to their job.

Somehow or another you seem to see this as some kind of a solution to something. I do not know what.

What is the point?
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Old 04-25-2018, 06:55 PM
 
11,575 posts, read 5,555,146 times
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The thing is Obama cooked the books when it came to deportation figures. He was NOT "the deporter in chief" as he claimed to be. (Yes, I know---you didn't claim otherwise.)

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...dhs-chief-say/

The truth still remains. Once again, ICE is being allowed to do their jobs.

Here is an article that discusses what sanctuary cities are all about. So, yes, they are impeding the feds.

The Dangerous Myth That Sanctuary City Policies Encourage Victims and Witnesses to Cooperate with Local Law Enforcement | Federation for American Immigration Reform

From the article:

If the governments in sanctuary jurisdictions were really concerned about fighting crime, they would cooperate with ICE to permanently remove illegal alien criminals from their communities. Doing so would ultimately increase the number of resources available to deter crime because every dollar ICE spends removing a criminal alien from the United States is one that local communities don’t have to expend on criminal justice costs.
Although the federal government is responsible for regulating immigration, state and local law enforcement play an important role in helping to ensure that immigration law is effectively enforced. Illegal and unconstitutional sanctuary city policies undermine the rule of law and prevent local, state and federal law enforcement agencies from working in conjunction with each other as they should.
-------------------------------------------------

True, local police are not ICE agents. However, they are expected to work with ICE and turn over illegal aliens, which many localities refuse to do.

There's no more for me to say about this subject at this point in the thread.
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Old 04-25-2018, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,325 posts, read 13,811,097 times
Reputation: 11491
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
If someone rapes a child (or anyone) they go to prison. You have to simply make stuff up but no one will answer my question.

Before it went like this. The state checked with federal immigration officials and upon learning the person was here illegally they were told to hold them as the federal government doesn't have the ability to do so. This costs the states a lot of money. (money tax cuts won't pay for). They get their day in court and get out until a hearing can be set. They go back to their job.

If they happen to actually show up to their hearing and if they happen to get deported, they simply turn around and return to their job.

Somehow or another you seem to see this as some kind of a solution to something. I do not know what.

What is the point?
ICE is there to take them to prison ... Not everyone gets caught in the act . Hardly anyone probably .
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Old 04-25-2018, 07:11 PM
 
10,951 posts, read 3,826,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
ICE is there to take them to prison ... Not everyone gets caught in the act . Hardly anyone probably .
A child rapist should go to jail for a long time. Such a person should not be deported to pray on some other nations children.

To a large degree that is how MS13 has become a problem. A gang formed in the US and then deported to build a large gang from the deportees in some other nation...and provide the terrorism driving people to immigrate to the US.
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Old 04-25-2018, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,325 posts, read 13,811,097 times
Reputation: 11491
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
A child rapist should go to jail for a long time. Such a person should not be deported to pray on some other nations children.

To a large degree that is how MS13 has become a problem. A gang formed in the US and then deported to build a large gang from the deportees in some other nation...and provide the terrorism driving people to immigrate to the US.
They should go to jail for a long time I agree . Iíd rather they be executed.
Thatís another topic though .
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Old 04-25-2018, 07:24 PM
 
Location: la la land
27,422 posts, read 11,491,506 times
Reputation: 19395
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
So...DACA was mentioned in the article, and...? The point was that Obama was telling ICE to not deport any illegals who were in the age group eligible for DACA---whether or not they applied for DACA.

https://hotair.com/archives/2015/02/...oing-your-job/

The point is that Obama did indeed prevent ICE from doing their jobs.

I never said that it was the state's job to arrest illegals. However, blocking the feds from doing their jobs by creating sanctuary jurisdictions is what the topic is about.

I'm not arguing with you at all. Apologies for posting an article that happened to mention DACA.
Wrong...the actual quote from Obama in that hotair article is as follows:

"THE PRESIDENT: Josť, look, the bottom line is, is that if somebody is working for ICE and there is a policy and they donít follow the policy, there are going to be consequences to it. So I canít speak to a specific problem. What I can talk about is whatís true in the government, generally."

the comment you seem to be attributing to Obama "If you do your job, weíre coming to get you" is made up BS by the RWNJ author of the article, Jazz Shaw...talk about fake news
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