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Old 04-26-2018, 09:43 AM
 
11,895 posts, read 9,620,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Sanctuary city policies make it harder to focus on getting only the bad guys since ICE has to enter the communities . A lot of people get caught in the net .. because of sanctuary policies

And at the end of the day these folks have no legal right to live in this country .. even if they aren’t child rapists or gang bangers .
A lot of people are getting caught in the net because that is what this administration is directing its executive agency to do. He is targeting ALL people who are not documented, which he is allowed to do under the INA (federal immigration statute). It explicitly says that people who overstay visas or who were never legal in the first place, so like walked across the border and managed to make it, are deportable.

It also says that those convicted of certain crimes are deportable. Presidents are able to decide who they prioritize, and while Obama primarily prioritized criminals, Trump is prioritizing everyone - though still does focus on criminals as well, but under him, no illegal should feel safe - but also under the law, no illegal should feel safe. He is enforcing the law in the most expansive way possible, really.

Sanctuary policies aren't the reason why non-criminal illegals are being rounded up for deportation, it's because that's what Trump's ICE is being told to do. Even if sanctuary cities aren't cooperating, nothing is stopping ICE agents from going into those communities, like going to courthouses, and arresting illegals they are targeting. NJ's supreme court chief justice actually publicly asked ICE to stop arresting people in/at NJ courthouses, so sanctuary cities/states don't hinder all that much honestly. ICE has its ways regardless of whether the states help. When sanctuary cities or state agencies let people go despite detainers, ICE can and does still find them to arrest them anyway. ICE has press releases on its website all the time about it.

Trump also called for I think 10000 more ICE agents to be hired, and more immigration judges. I know that more immigration judges have been hired but I don't know about agents. But it's up to the president entirely to determine how enforcement is done. With more agents, more people can be arrested despite no state cooperation, and with more judges, cases can move quicker.
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:47 AM
 
71,504 posts, read 30,040,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
A lot of people are getting caught in the net because that is what this administration is directing its executive agency to do. He is targeting ALL people who are not documented, which he is allowed to do under the INA (federal immigration statute). It explicitly says that people who overstay visas or who were never legal in the first place, so like walked across the border and managed to make it, are deportable.

It also says that those convicted of certain crimes are deportable. Presidents are able to decide who they prioritize, and while Obama primarily prioritized criminals, Trump is prioritizing everyone - though still does focus on criminals as well, but under him, no illegal should feel safe - but also under the law, no illegal should feel safe. He is enforcing the law in the most expansive way possible, really.

Sanctuary policies aren't the reason why non-criminal illegals are being rounded up for deportation, it's because that's what Trump's ICE is being told to do. Even if sanctuary cities aren't cooperating, nothing is stopping ICE agents from going into those communities, like going to courthouses, and arresting illegals they are targeting. NJ's supreme court chief justice actually publicly asked ICE to stop arresting people in/at NJ courthouses, so sanctuary cities/states don't hinder all that much honestly. ICE has its ways regardless of whether the states help. When sanctuary cities or state agencies let people go despite detainers, ICE can and does still find them to arrest them anyway. ICE has press releases on its website all the time about it.

Trump also called for I think 10000 more ICE agents to be hired, and more immigration judges. I know that more immigration judges have been hired but I don't know about agents. But it's up to the president entirely to determine how enforcement is done. With more agents, more people can be arrested despite no state cooperation, and with more judges, cases can move quicker.
How does he plan on paying for all of this? With more tax cuts?
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
How does he plan on paying for all of this? With more tax cuts?
I don't know. I still would like to see our massive military budget cut for other things.

Regardless of how we will pay for it, the president is doing what he is within his power to do - like Obama did prior.

You are right that a decent number of deported individuals return. This study is for those who were deported criminals - https://cis.org/Revolving-Door
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I don't know. I still would like to see our massive military budget cut for other things.
Me too but he increased that.

Quote:
Regardless of how we will pay for it, the president is doing what he is within his power to do - like Obama did prior.

You are right that a decent number of deported individuals return. This study is for those who were deported criminals - https://cis.org/Revolving-Door
He can do what he is doing BUT it isn't all that is in his power to do and that is the failure.
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:15 AM
 
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Kind of relevant to what pknopp is arguing, I don't think people realize that if every state agency in every state voluntarily cooperated with the feds in enforcing immigration, the federal system will be even more strained than it already is. Immigration cases take over well a year on average to be resolved, and there has been a backup in the immigration courts for years.

Constitutionally, undocumented immigrants may only be held by the states for 48 hours before they must be released, or they have a constitutional claim against the state. Cities like NYC have large populations of illegals. If NYC told the feds every single time they were about to release an illegal who has committed a crime and either is being released pretrial or after they served their sentence, OR even better, if under 287(g) they are deputized essentially as ICE officers themselves, the feds would constantly be running around to all these agencies - local jails, state prisons - picking people up within that 48 hour period. It's not like states can hold every illegal until the end of the week when the feds can do a weekly roundup. No. It's 2 days max.

The feds would be picking up SO MANY MORE people, and the system will be even more bogged down with cases. And yeah, many illegals are released from federal detention pending their immigration cases, so they're still out there in society while their case is resolved.

States HAVE TO hand illegals over to the feds even if they cooperate. They cannot do anything on their own in the federal process. It may technically makes ICE agents' jobs easier for states to cooperate, because ideally they can just grab people straight from state custody within that 48 hour period, but it wouldn't make the whole system more efficient. And again, if every agency in every state cooperated like people seem to want, there would be so many people to pick up, always within a 48 hour period staggered over days in the week, that ICE may not even be able to effectively handle them all anyway.
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:28 AM
 
71,504 posts, read 30,040,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
Kind of relevant to what pknopp is arguing, I don't think people realize that if every state agency in every state voluntarily cooperated with the feds in enforcing immigration, the federal system will be even more strained than it already is. Immigration cases take over well a year on average to be resolved, and there has been a backup in the immigration courts for years.
Absolutely. I've made that point many times. It would take multiple lifetimes to process everyone and yes, that has to be done.

Quote:
Constitutionally, undocumented immigrants may only be held by the states for 48 hours before they must be released, or they have a constitutional claim against the state. Cities like NYC have large populations of illegals. If NYC told the feds every single time they were about to release an illegal who has committed a crime and either is being released pretrial or after they served their sentence, OR even better, if under 287(g) they are deputized essentially as ICE officers themselves, the feds would constantly be running around to all these agencies - local jails, state prisons - picking people up within that 48 hour period. It's not like states can hold every illegal until the end of the week when the feds can do a weekly roundup. No. It's 2 days max.
And even if the Feds would pick them up that quick they have nowhere to put them. They get a hearing and released until their next hearing. Some show up, many others do not.

Quote:
The feds would be picking up SO MANY MORE people, and the system will be even more bogged down with cases. And yeah, many illegals are released from federal detention pending their immigration cases, so they're still out there in society while their case is resolved.

States HAVE TO hand illegals over to the feds even if they cooperate. They cannot do anything on their own in the federal process. It may technically makes ICE agents' jobs easier for states to cooperate, because ideally they can just grab people straight from state custody within that 48 hour period, but it wouldn't make the whole system more efficient. And again, if every agency in every state cooperated like people seem to want, there would be so many people to pick up, always within a 48 hour period staggered over days in the week, that ICE may not even be able to effectively handle them all anyway.
The only solution is to go after the reason they come here in the first place. Jobs. The government has no desire to do that.
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:38 AM
 
Location: la la land
27,182 posts, read 11,359,293 times
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And Trump's aggressive deportation policy might not be based on his campaign promises but rather a quid pro quo:

"The Trump administration has ordered the transfer of more inmates from government-run facilities to private lockups, a leaked memo from the Bureau of Prisons has shown. The move marks the latest boost given to the private prison industry, which donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to the president's election campaign and his inauguration...Currently, there are 11 private prisons in contract with the Bureau of Prisons, with most housing immigrants who have been convicted of crimes. Of those, nine are operated by CoreCivic and GEO Group, who gave $250,000 and $475,000 to President Donald Trump's campaign and inauguration, respectively."
Trump Administration Giving Boost to Private Prison Campaign Donors, Leaked Memo Shows
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Old 04-26-2018, 01:28 PM
 
11,895 posts, read 9,620,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Absolutely. I've made that point many times. It would take multiple lifetimes to process everyone and yes, that has to be done.



And even if the Feds would pick them up that quick they have nowhere to put them. They get a hearing and released until their next hearing. Some show up, many others do not.



The only solution is to go after the reason they come here in the first place. Jobs. The government has no desire to do that.
They don't all get released. ICE/the government can move to detain. I forget what they have to show, but it's in the statute. More often than not, they are probably released though. Although, SCOTUS recently held that illegal immigrants can be detained indefinitely by ICE while their cases are pending (the ones who are detained when ICE meets the burden to show they should be detained), so that's a plus for the government regarding those who are at risk to never show up in court again and disappear, but whose cases are taking too long. They are not entitled to more bond hearings and release.

I do imagine that not showing up to hearings is an issue at least sometimes. I also imagine that people who have been here illegally for years and have ties here ARE willing to defend themselves in hopes that those factors would mitigate their situation and not end in deportation. I'm pretty sure it's in the statute that judges may consider circumstances like that in determining whether to order deportation.
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Old 04-26-2018, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,896 posts, read 5,866,353 times
Reputation: 6050
[quote=BOS2IAD;51665701]You are just letting pknopp string you along and swing in the wind with the cryptic replies. Put him/her on ignore and give us some peace.
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Old 04-26-2018, 06:42 PM
 
71,504 posts, read 30,040,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnieA View Post
You are just letting pknopp string you along and swing in the wind with the cryptic replies. Put him/her on ignore and give us some peace.
There is nothing cryptic about going after the reason people come here. Jobs. Nothing could be clearer.
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