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Old 04-27-2018, 11:15 AM
 
71,504 posts, read 30,027,987 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Another amnesty opens up decades more illegal immigration. Not only no but hell no. We are far better off doing what we are doing now. Increase ICE presence, make the environment so hostile they leave.
When you pick up less than 1% there is no hostile environment. Then with millions upon millions still here with perhaps the next president having a different view, what did you accomplish?

Quote:
I'll go out on a limb here and say these people are in a far better place than where they came from so they are hardly disadvantaged. Amnesty fixes nothing it simply rewards them with even more social services.
You haven't presented a better alternative.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:16 AM
 
71,504 posts, read 30,027,987 times
Reputation: 14078
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
What happened after the last amnesty and no wall. 11 million more. No wall no amnesty, no amnesty ever.
What happened last time was not because there was no wall. It was because there was no enforcement. If you want to argue that might happen again, it's possible but you are mad at the wrong people for that.
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Old 04-27-2018, 03:30 PM
 
11,488 posts, read 5,507,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AguaDulce View Post
Building a border wall is too expensive, and going after kids brought here illegally as infants is just downright mean.

He's hardly ever mentioned punishing employers who hire illegals.
It's not "downright mean" at all. Not all of them were brought here "as infants". Many were brought here as teenagers.

There is an old saying, which I'll paraphrase here --- The sins of the parents fall on the child. It means that none of us had any control over what our parents did or didn't do to or for us when we were growing up. That's life, deal with it.

Should we reward those who grew up poor (after all, it wasn't their fault) by giving them a fat check? Should we allow the kids of bank robbers to keep the money their parents stole? Obviously, the answer to those questions is "NO", and that's the same answer that DACAs need to get.

Whatever it costs to build the border wall, it will be worth every penny. Not everybody who sneaks across the border is someone who only wants to work. Many come here intent on doing harm.
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
2,951 posts, read 1,654,475 times
Reputation: 1787
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
It's not "downright mean" at all. Not all of them were brought here "as infants". Many were brought here as teenagers.

There is an old saying, which I'll paraphrase here --- The sins of the parents fall on the child. It means that none of us had any control over what our parents did or didn't do to or for us when we were growing up. That's life, deal with it.

Should we reward those who grew up poor (after all, it wasn't their fault) by giving them a fat check? Should we allow the kids of bank robbers to keep the money their parents stole? Obviously, the answer to those questions is "NO", and that's the same answer that DACAs need to get.

Whatever it costs to build the border wall, it will be worth every penny. Not everybody who sneaks across the border is someone who only wants to work. Many come here intent on doing harm.
Why doesn't Trump go after employers who hire illegals?

He's hardly ever mentioned punishing employers who hire illegals.
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:16 PM
 
11,488 posts, read 5,507,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AguaDulce View Post
Why doesn't Trump go after employers who hire illegals?

He's hardly ever mentioned punishing employers who hire illegals.
ICE has done some raids since Obama left office. You do know that Obama stopped the raids, no?

You also know that when GW Bush was president, he ordered the SSA to print up and send 8 million no-match SSN letters to employers, no? Before he could send out the letters, the ACLU sued the government. Cowards that they are, they took their case to the Ninth Circuit Court which is staffed with left wing activist judges who ended up siding with the ACLU.

In light of that^^^^anyone would hesitate to do what GW Bush tried to do.

E-verify needs to be made the law of the land. Once that happens, everybody in the workforce needs to be screened to weed out those 8 million no-match letters.

And, yes, I'm all in favor of more workplace raids. Are you?
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:45 PM
 
10,703 posts, read 3,742,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
ICE has done some raids since Obama left office. You do know that Obama stopped the raids, no?

You also know that when GW Bush was president, he ordered the SSA to print up and send 8 million no-match SSN letters to employers, no? Before he could send out the letters, the ACLU sued the government. Cowards that they are, they took their case to the Ninth Circuit Court which is staffed with left wing activist judges who ended up siding with the ACLU.

In light of that^^^^anyone would hesitate to do what GW Bush tried to do.

E-verify needs to be made the law of the land. Once that happens, everybody in the workforce needs to be screened to weed out those 8 million no-match letters.

And, yes, I'm all in favor of more workplace raids. Are you?
Your misstating the issue. The thing fought was the safe harbor provision that would allow employer to act on the SSA no match without having to follow the anti-discrimination laws. And DHS actually gave up and did away with the proposal.

You think raids that get 97 people...most of whom will end up released...is a big deal. All we need is 10,000 more of those and we have the first million going.
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Old 04-27-2018, 06:34 PM
 
2,967 posts, read 878,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I had posted a reply but then you added to it. My initial reply still is valid here. Changing my argument is dishonest.



"Illegal alien sympathizers" can NOT stop the administration from cracking down on employers. You want to blame people who are not responsible for the inaction's.



Simply agreeing will accomplish what? There isn't a single "Sanctuary law" that stops the Feds from doing anything on the books.
And putting up barriers between local and federal agencies accomplishes what? In what dimension is this even a thing that happens? The premise behind sanctuary laws is that illegal aliens will report crimes. Illegal aliens already don't report crimes. They are perpetually breaking the law. They know it. There's a thread here about Hispanics being told to not talk to police, they don't. Every one knows snitches get stitches. Anyone remember Minnie Street in Santa Ana? They kicked out all of the gangsters and renovated the entire place, it's still a rat **** hole now.

Local doesn't enforce immigration laws, nobody said they did. They work on task forces with other agencies, often. By the way, the jails won't hold these illegals for ICE, WHY ARE THEY IN JAIL? For being top of their class in physics? Lol. It would be like if they had a hard working citizen in jail for DUI and they noticed blood stains on his shirt and hands, can't call the FBI, he might not report all of the crimes.

CA is marijuana friendly so they will shield the marijuana industry from the DEA (btw I support mj legalization). CA doesn't like the new tax laws so they will shield tax payers and preparers from the IRS. Etc.

Seriously. It's political pandering, demagoguery, it's clear as day. As to why Trump doesn't enforce punishment employers? I don't know. Farm industry has a strong lobby? Why doesn't CA lead the way with punishment and e-verify since the majority of them are here.
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Old 04-27-2018, 06:59 PM
 
71,504 posts, read 30,027,987 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max210 View Post
And putting up barriers between local and federal agencies accomplishes what? In what dimension is this even a thing that happens? The premise behind sanctuary laws is that illegal aliens will report crimes. Illegal aliens already don't report crimes. They are perpetually breaking the law. They know it. There's a thread here about Hispanics being told to not talk to police, they don't. Every one knows snitches get stitches. Anyone remember Minnie Street in Santa Ana? They kicked out all of the gangsters and renovated the entire place, it's still a rat **** hole now.
Those who hire them are perpetually breaking the law. Where that is concerned, hardly a peep and I've covered the first part of your statement many times only for it to get ignored.

Quote:
Local doesn't enforce immigration laws, nobody said they did. They work on task forces with other agencies, often. By the way, the jails won't hold these illegals for ICE, WHY ARE THEY IN JAIL? For being top of their class in physics? Lol. It would be like if they had a hard working citizen in jail for DUI and they noticed blood stains on his shirt and hands, can't call the FBI, he might not report all of the crimes.
They serve their DUI time. A city can only hold someone 48 hours. The fed doesn't come get them NOR could they come get them even if they wanted to. They have NOWHERE to put them and those complaining don't want to pay the taxes it would cost anyway so they find themselves a scapegoat.

Let's say the Feds does pick someone up in 24 hours. They get a hearing. They get released until their next hearing. They go back to work. Maybe they show up for their next hearing, maybe they don't. If they do, they get deported. They turn around and come right back to their job.

What is the point? Why should states waste even one dollar on this revolving door?

Quote:
Seriously. It's political pandering, demagoguery, it's clear as day. As to why Trump doesn't enforce punishment employers? I don't know. Farm industry has a strong lobby? Why doesn't CA lead the way with punishment and e-verify since the majority of them are here.

It's like beating your head against a brick wall California is NOT able to. It's a federal issue. Why are you not asking Trump this? He can do it. You are the political demagogue.
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Old 04-28-2018, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee
2,951 posts, read 1,654,475 times
Reputation: 1787
E-verify could be improved and enforced for a tiny fraction of the money that it would cost to build the wall.

Employers could be forced to use it--and fined or jailed for refusing to do so.

The concept of building the wall has become such a rallying cry for Trump's supporters. I can't figure out why they don't want a cheaper and more effective solution.

Take away the incentive to come here.

Last edited by AguaDulce; 04-28-2018 at 07:27 AM..
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