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Old 06-07-2018, 06:36 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,449,162 times
Reputation: 1755

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Give me a break, I know citizens who are plumbers and they don't make 60k a year. For the most part large contractors hire citizens, it's the handyman unlicensed contractor who picks up their help in the Home Depot parking lot.

And you say they have no intention of becoming Americans? Once they enter the US illegally they can't apply for citizenship no matter how badly they want it. If you are here illegally you can't apply for citizenship.

You can't get welfare benefits unless you are a citizen so that claim of yours is utterly false.

What contractors is ICE going after? I'd like to know more about that.
Sorry, no can do. I can't give you a break because it's just the doggone truth.

Right, a lot of citizens don't make 60 a year. Taxes are a large reason they don't. I own a plumbing company and I can tell you, illegals get picked up a lot more than you think.


Contractors do pick up labor, as well as a few illegal tile guys, and cabinet guys who usually have their own crew of illegal labor.
And yes, Handymen sometimes do pick up illegal labor but from what I've seen it's usually contractors who have the most illegals their jobs.
And ICE knows it. - http://www.builderonline.com/buildin...s-immigrants_o

No, not all come to be citizens, they have family at home, they come over to make a living. They send their money home. Then they go back, why would they want to become citizens? They have a home and family in Mexico and they are happy with it. We aren't talking about DACA or anything like that. These are just workers. They love Mexico, they just need money.

Benefits. For one, you can get a fake id which most I have known have and they can get benefits with it.
Once illegal immigrants arrive, they buy forged documents saying they are U.S. citizens. The only way to stop this is to crack down on those who make and sell forged documents. If employers, state, and federal agencies cannot tell a forged document from a real document, then of course illegal aliens will receive benefits.
https://thelawdictionary.org/article...-pay-no-taxes/

But, there are a lot of benefits you can get without an id. WIC, SNAP, emergency room care, education (in-state tuition even when an American from the next state over can't get in-state tuition), and heck, even a fishing, and hunting license and in some states a drivers license. Not to mention those who give charity specifically to illegals.

Plus: They have children here. If the U.S. government sent the parents of these children away, we would be separating families. Now that these families have given birth to U.S. citizens, the families are eligible for benefits such as WIC and food stamps. Benefits such as these are for low-income families. Illegal aliens often work in low paying jobs so they now qualify for benefits.



https://www.texasconstructionlawblog...ate-frostbite/
A 2013 study by the Workers Defense Project and University of Texas found that 50 percent of surveyed construction workers in Texas were undocumented. Approximately one in every thirteen people in the Texas workforce labors in construction, meaning as many as 400,000 Texas construction workers are undocumented. ( this is during the recession) It's probably more now.

https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/ar...aliens-receive

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/...grant-workers/
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:04 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,449,162 times
Reputation: 1755
This is hard to watch, and it's sad but it shows how an illegal on paper can start a business framing and end up with ten employees.
He finally got deported 23 years later after marrying and having kids. He never followed up on his papers, just assumed it was ok maybe, or just ignored it because it took so long. Who knows, but illegals are hard to track, and can do a lot you don't think they can while in the U.S. This family could easily get benefits, a business license, and have tons of children and make good money all while he was illegal. Nobody checks records, our system has been broken for a long time. Still, seems like a nice enough guy, and you can't help but feel his pain.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOEn0iBWWx0

As hard as it is to watch, this is still an American job lost to an illegal. Hopefully we can make it easier to come here legally in the future but for now, we have to fix the mess.
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,783 posts, read 26,085,747 times
Reputation: 33926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokinouta View Post
Benefits. For one, you can get a fake id which most I have known have and they can get benefits with it.
Once illegal immigrants arrive, they buy forged documents saying they are U.S. citizens. The only way to stop this is to crack down on those who make and sell forged documents. If employers, state, and federal agencies cannot tell a forged document from a real document, then of course illegal aliens will receive benefits.
https://thelawdictionary.org/article...-pay-no-taxes/
But, there are a lot of benefits you can get without an id. WIC, SNAP, emergency room care, education (in-state tuition even when an American from the next state over can't get in-state tuition), and heck, even a fishing, and hunting license and in some states a drivers license. Not to mention those who give charity specifically to illegals.
Plus: They have children here. If the U.S. government sent the parents of these children away, we would be separating families. Now that these families have given birth to U.S. citizens, the families are eligible for benefits such as WIC and food stamps. Benefits such as these are for low-income families. Illegal aliens often work in low paying jobs so they now qualify for benefits.
Having citizen children does not make the parents eligible for benefits. You are wrong and your source is wrong. You can't go to the welfare office with a bad social security number and get benefits. The social security number HAS TO MATCH the SS database and has to belong to a person with the same name and date of birth as the applicant. You need a birth certificate, an official copy from the state where you were born. I've worked with the poor for years and sometimes it's hard to get the paperwork they need to apply for benefits. You can't walk in with some fake SS card and get WIC, or SNAP. I already told you that anyone regardless of immigration status can get care in the emergency room, and there are Supreme Court decisions that require that a k-12 education be provided to all children in the US whether they are illegal or citizens. Some states allow illegal immigrants to qualify for in state tuition but that is not a "welfare program"

Regarding this: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/...grant-workers/[/quote] You said lots of contractors were being targeted by ICE, I don't see anything in that about contractors.

And yes, charities can donate money, food and clothing to illegal immigrants, but I am not sure why you would think that shouldn't be allowed, it's not your money is it?
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:25 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 636,346 times
Reputation: 289
I agree they're both breaking the law its a question of logistics of enforcement...
once again you can run around chasing flies with a swatter or simply take out the trash!

those of you that have never worked in law enforcement in a heavily Latino area may not understand the optics here, when you go after PEOPLE you look like a monster when you go after criminal corporations you look like a HERO... IE drug war... that's the whole factor behind social fabric....champion that and you look like a racist angry old man and feed the social justice warrior propaganda machine.

there are a lot of ways to win a fight, some are smarter more effective and more honorable that's the whole point of this argument. i want to crush the criminal corporate monsters instead of filling our jails with people who organize into criminal gangs while letting their family collect welfare. in working shoulder to shoulder with these men I found many of them to be lazy and greedy not at all impressed by their work ethic although some were excellent people, pretty much similar to Americans, what was so entertaining was the way the Mexicans warned me about all the dirty criminials from central America trying to STEAL THEIR JOBS!!! As Crowders video points out they do in fact very very well in most cases when you consider the exchange rate the industrious worker can make a lifetimes wages in a few years

Many of them retire to their home county (where most prefer ro live) and buy businesses with their saved American dollars. Many of them would rather stay here have as many kids as possible and game the welfare system. Make no mistake, many of them HATE Americans and see them as chumps to bleed every chance they get...

they arent stealing your jobs, the fat cats GAVE them away and suckered you with an old trick. Diversionary propaganda 101...big business wants you to chase the flies not take out the garbage!
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,783 posts, read 26,085,747 times
Reputation: 33926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post

they arent stealing your jobs, the fat cats GAVE them away and suckered you with an old trick. Diversionary propaganda 101...big business wants you to chase the flies not take out the garbage!
While I don't agree with everything that you said, this ^ is the absolute undeniable truth and it's sad how many people are fooled into thinking that the cause of this is anything else other than what you said.
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Lee County, NC
3,317 posts, read 2,321,141 times
Reputation: 4382
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
You can't get welfare benefits unless you are a citizen so that claim of yours is utterly false.
If you have a couple of kids once you get on this side of the border you sure can.
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,783 posts, read 26,085,747 times
Reputation: 33926
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodyfromnc View Post
If you have a couple of kids once you get on this side of the border you sure can.
You can get benefits for the kids, not for the adults in the family
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:57 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,449,162 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Having citizen children does not make the parents eligible for benefits. You are wrong and your source is wrong. You can't go to the welfare office with a bad social security number and get benefits. The social security number HAS TO MATCH the SS database and has to belong to a person with the same name and date of birth as the applicant. You need a birth certificate, an official copy from the state where you were born. I've worked with the poor for years and sometimes it's hard to get the paperwork they need to apply for benefits. You can't walk in with some fake SS card and get WIC, or SNAP. I already told you that anyone regardless of immigration status can get care in the emergency room, and there are Supreme Court decisions that require that a k-12 education be provided to all children in the US whether they are illegal or citizens. Some states allow illegal immigrants to qualify for in state tuition but that is not a "welfare program"

Regarding this: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/...grant-workers/
You said lots of contractors were being targeted by ICE, I don't see anything in that about contractors.

And yes, charities can donate money, food and clothing to illegal immigrants, but I am not sure why you would think that shouldn't be allowed, it's not your money is it?[/quote]

They use real social security numbers, just not there's. Come on now. How do you really think people coming over the border or overstaying their visas live? Money trees?
For nearly four decades, Andres Avelino Anduaga, a 66-year-old man from Tijuana, assumed Riojos’s identity — complete with a fraudulent birth certificate, Social Security number, identification number and U.S. passport. The documents allowed Anduaga to collect hundreds of thousands of dollars in government benefits under Riojos’s name, starting in 1989. For the next 27 years, Anduaga collected nearly $361,000 in Social Security, disability, health and food benefits, according to a criminal complaint.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.911203e66412


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lBW2MGpSQw
(felony identity thief)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6ogWOz9B7A
(the same way they attain work is the same way they get benefits) I.D. theft.


You only checked one link to something else. Here, I'll list it again.
ICE TAKES AIM AT CONSTRUCTION'S IMMIGRANTS
Job sites, employers get notice this week of Fed interests in sweeping audits, inspections, and compliance checks
http://www.builderonline.com/buildin...s-immigrants_o
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Old 06-07-2018, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,783 posts, read 26,085,747 times
Reputation: 33926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokinouta View Post
They use real social security numbers, just not there's. Come on now. How do you really think people coming over the border or overstaying their visas live? Money trees?
For nearly four decades, Andres Avelino Anduaga, a 66-year-old man from Tijuana, assumed Riojos’s identity — complete with a fraudulent birth certificate, Social Security number, identification number and U.S. passport. The documents allowed Anduaga to collect hundreds of thousands of dollars in government benefits under Riojos’s name, starting in 1989. For the next 27 years, Anduaga collected nearly $361,000 in Social Security, disability, health and food benefits, according to a criminal complaint.
that is in no way typical, there are also people who draw social security on their dead mother's account for years but it's rare and always makes the news. If they use a real social security number it's because they know someone and stole their identity, or they found a rogue DMV agent who sold them stolen ID info, both are very unusual. In areas of the US with a high illegal population there are shops where they buy their fake ID. It's fake data, it doesn't match anyone, When their employers send the withheld payroll taxes in, the SSN's don't match anyone so they go into a suspense file - in 2012 alone, there were 6.9 million wage items submitted with no matching Social Security number.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokinouta View Post
Job sites, employers get notice this week of Fed interests in sweeping audits, inspections, and compliance checks
http://www.builderonline.com/buildin...s-immigrants_o
Thanks for posting that, I hadn't seen it before.
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:01 PM
 
20,703 posts, read 8,472,156 times
Reputation: 14325
Everything changed when Lyndon Johnson created welfare so the people who used to pick vegetables could stay home and watch TV instead. Blacks and poor whites used to do those jobs. I agree that employers should be punished.
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