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Old 01-01-2007, 08:03 PM
 
597 posts, read 1,787,048 times
Reputation: 332

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
Can we or should we compare the migration of Puerto Ricans into the US after WWI, and heavily after WWII.

Quote from a history network:
Again at the end of World War II, United States companies began looking to Puerto Rico for cheap labor, and they sent agents to recruit workers. The demand was so great that the New York City Mayor Robert Wagner publicly stated in 1953 that he and all New Yorkers would welcome any Puerto Rican willing to work. Laboring jobs were plentiful! Jobs coupled with encouragement by the island government increased the average yearly migration of Puerto Ricans from 1,800 between 1930 and 1940 to 31,000 from 1946 to 1950, and to 45,000 from 1951 to 1960. In 1953, Puerto Rican migration to New York reached its peak when 75,000 people left the island. Estimates are that more than one million Puerto Ricans migrated during this period. By 1964, the Puerto Rican community made up 9.3 percent of the total New York City population.

...

So I wonder!
Okay, while I understand your analogy to our current immigration problem it doesn't quite hold weight when you do a closer comparison. Rather than 45,000-75,000 people per year coming into this country, we're talking about people flowing over the Mexican border each year, BY THE MILLIONS. In many communities, they went from a 2% Hispanic population to 30-50% (with no knowledge of the English language) within a matter of a few years and hundreds of cities in this country are a majority Hispanic, largely due to illegal immigration. This type of change happening at an explosive rate changes the demographics of not only race (what all the pro-illegal people try to claim is the only reason people don't want illegals here--ridiculous!), but economics, crime, drugs, quality of life, and healthcare among other things.

Even at 9% of the population back in the 60's, Peurto Ricans didn't have enough of an influence to change the language of city itself, like what is happening today all over America. This has already happened in Texas, where a town adopted Spanish as its official language a few years ago. While many people like to make the argument that these new illegals will start to assimilate fully within 1-2 more generations in this country, but many question when will the flow stop to allow these people already here to assimilate? Will we keep saying that we should wait for them to assimilate when the same thing is happening 10 years from now and there continues to be millions pouring over the border? What incentives do new immigrants have to learn English when in so many communities today, English is the foreign language? No offense, but I think your logic is flawed.

 
Old 01-01-2007, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,474,849 times
Reputation: 3826
I actually don't think I was espousing logic, but rather questioning the issue of immigration, albeit illegal or legal. Let's face it if this issue wasn't a hot button we wouldn't have 50% of the political threads addressing the issue or concerned with it whether it is here in the Politics Forum or elsewhere in State by State Forums.

I am concerned, like you, that we have an excessive number of people entering the country. What I am also concerned with is trying to understand the issue from a neutral position.

I live in a town that is 60% Spanish--3rd, 4th, 5th generation Spaniards. Very few of these residents are Mexican or of Mexican origin. However, they are beginning to feel threatened by the hatred, or at least the perceived strong animosity toward Spanish-speakers (although, interestingly enough many of them speak English as their primary language). These are neighbours, and good people.

I asked one of my friends at dinner tonight how he feels, and I was really impressed with his thoughtfulness about present day immigrants. He is an extremely educated man, and of Mexican descent--2 generations ago. His family came to the US, legally and have done well. But, it is not easy for him, a reasonable person, to understand the wave of anti-Hispanic rhetoric.

I too am just trying to read what everyone is saying, and understand, try to understand, where the heightened feelings are coming from--and if I can understand I can be both more sympathic and empathic to this issue. Right now, you'd call me a progressive, left-wing liberal

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdizzle View Post
Okay,
No offense, but I think your logic is flawed.
 
Old 01-01-2007, 11:38 PM
 
211 posts, read 219,498 times
Reputation: 84
We need a guest worker program that has no path to citizenship, ends the birth rate, and prevents unskilled/uneducated immigration -- we're a first world superpower we don't need to continue to allow drains on the system. We allow people to come over here and then sign-up for food stamps and their other free handouts.

We need guest worker program for the labor, but I do not support uncontrolled immigration, voting rights, etc etc. They are demographically swamping us and we're going to end up a third world Brown country if we don't do something about it.
 
Old 01-02-2007, 12:38 AM
 
597 posts, read 1,787,048 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
...

I live in a town that is 60% Spanish--3rd, 4th, 5th generation Spaniards. Very few of these residents are Mexican or of Mexican origin. However, they are beginning to feel threatened by the hatred, or at least the perceived strong animosity toward Spanish-speakers (although, interestingly enough many of them speak English as their primary language). These are neighbours, and good people.

I asked one of my friends at dinner tonight how he feels, and I was really impressed with his thoughtfulness about present day immigrants. He is an extremely educated man, and of Mexican descent--2 generations ago. His family came to the US, legally and have done well. But, it is not easy for him, a reasonable person, to understand the wave of anti-Hispanic rhetoric.

I too am just trying to read what everyone is saying, and understand, try to understand, where the heightened feelings are coming from--and if I can understand I can be both more sympathic and empathic to this issue. Right now, you'd call me a progressive, left-wing liberal
Well, no worries I won't call you names . In fact, I've had people shoot those exact words at me before, so I won't go there. Anyway, I can sympathize with your friend's concern over anti-hispanic rhetoric. Reasonable people that read my posts can tell that I am not trying to be anti-hispanic, and I'm sure 99% of the people on this site are not being anti-hispanic, but rather anti-illegal immigrant, of which the vast majority are hispanic. I don't think you're accusing me, but I want to make that clear to the readers.

The animosity towards illegals IMO has grown out of a percieved lack of enforcement by our government on immigration offenses and this makes many people feel helpless and some may lash out at the illegals, which is unfortunate. I know many illegals are hardworking people with families. That said, I also know that most illegals are very poor, and when you import poverty in such large numbers into small and medium sized communities, bad things will follow. We've seen it all over the country. Hospitals closing. Schools failing. Dramatic rises in crime. Prostitution. Drugs. Gangs. Spanish the main language of discourse. Many, many people have seen or felt these consequences first hand. I've seen it in the community I grew up in, where gang violence is becoming a serious concern, when this was essentially non-existent in the past.

Aside from those consequences laid out above, many people, myself included, feel that if the immigration trends continue at there current pace that we will soon become a bilingual nation. I don't think that is a positive thing. Language and a common culture are what bind us as Americans. If people immigrate to this land in huge numbers that don't require them to immerse themselves and completely assimilate to our culture, then what do we have? We will be forced to adopt a culture and language that I don't believe any American ever asked for or wanted.

Last edited by WazzuCoop21; 01-02-2007 at 02:07 AM..
 
Old 01-02-2007, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,215 posts, read 43,490,073 times
Reputation: 18654
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenhearted View Post
does it bother ANYONE besides me to hear on the phone
press one for english?
i have been SPEAKING english for almost 50 years-why do i have to CHOOSE to speak in english?
Because there are people living in this country, both legally and otherwise, who speak languages other than English. Who cares?? Is it really that difficult to press a button, especially considering all the other crap you go through on automated systems? As I've stated many times, this is commonplace in most other countries... so we're just catching up with them.
 
Old 01-02-2007, 02:14 AM
 
Location: Navarre, Florida
327 posts, read 173,746 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
Amen. I guess we should "dislike" all white people based on the KKK & Aryan Nation, and all Catholics based on the pedophile priests, and black people because of OJ Simpson, and..... well you all get my point.
Great point! America would be a much nicer place if we would treat as we would want to be treated.
 
Old 01-02-2007, 02:22 AM
 
Location: Navarre, Florida
327 posts, read 173,746 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by newportbeachsmostwanted View Post
This is a horrible tragedy, and I am glad others feel the same way as I do.

Every once and a while, I like to go to Home Depot and yell "La Migra! Ma Migra!" [Mexican term for immigration authorities] They get soo scared.. Most of them run away and hide.

We, as Americans, need to keep these people on their feet. In a country that enforces it's laws, this is how these people should be treated. You can argue that these are human beings.. blah, blah, blah.. But the difference is: the existence of bad and good.

You show disrespect for OUR laws, I show disrespect to YOU.
That was really funny...La Migra...I might be tired, but I used to live in San Antonio and they always were worried about the INS...so the visual was extremely funny to me. Thanks for the tiny bit of humor...I needed that!

As for the rest of your post, I couldn't agree with you more. Welcome to America, but abide by our rules...

Last edited by Kimbercuddles; 01-02-2007 at 02:25 AM.. Reason: blonde, physically and mentally
 
Old 01-02-2007, 02:30 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,215 posts, read 43,490,073 times
Reputation: 18654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimbercuddles View Post
Great point! America would be a much nicer place if we would treat as we would want to be treated.
Yes, it would be very nice. I always try to live by the Golden Rule, since I think those are important words to remember... one day the tables may turn, and people learn what it feels like to be treated poorly. Here's another saying I've always loved, which is kind of relevant here -

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me."

I think the real problem here is selfishness, and the refusal of some people to "conform" or accomodate anyone else... this can be applied to a number of issues, in addition to immigration, and seems to be a growing problem. I hear it constantly - "Why should I have to change to suit them??" - and while I don't think we need to change everything, a little flexibility or sympathy wouldn't kill us.
 
Old 01-02-2007, 03:09 AM
 
Location: Navarre, Florida
327 posts, read 173,746 times
Reputation: 86
A little flexibility is easily given...the problem is that I don't want to be a little flexible for people who are here illegally...if they don't respect our laws, I would like to send them back until they do it the correct way.

Selfishness is a HUGE problem, these days!! This is the "ME" generation, and it's getting progressively worse, I agree.
 
Old 01-02-2007, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,215 posts, read 43,490,073 times
Reputation: 18654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimbercuddles View Post
A little flexibility is easily given...the problem is that I don't want to be a little flexible for people who are here illegally...if they don't respect our laws, I would like to send them back until they do it the correct way.
Unfortunately, many of them don't have another logical option. It's great to say "breaking any law is wrong", but think about the story of Les Miserables, where Jean Valjean did 20(?) years in prison for stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family. Obviously that's just a story, but this situation happens in real life... would you do the same for your children?? It's not that easy for them to get those legal papers, and often takes many years. I agree that we need more control over illegal immigration, but let's not forget WHY they come here illegally in the first place... I personally think more needs to be done from the inside, meaning the Mexican & US Governments. I don't know an exact solution, otherwise I'd be nominated for a Nobel Prize (LOL) - but this is just what's in my heart.

Quote:
Selfishness is a HUGE problem, these days!! This is the "ME" generation, and it's getting progressively worse, I agree.
Yup. They said the '80s was the "me generation", but I think it's even worse now... drive on our Bay Area freeways some time, and you'll see rudeness & selfish behavior at it's worst!! Even our technology has become more rude, with people talking on cell phones in fancy restaurants, grocery stores, movies, etc.
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