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I agree with your assessment of the problem. However, you must realize that granting amnesty to millions of illegal aliens currently in our country will also not solve the problem. If anything, it will only encourage more illegal entry. What gives you the impression our government will ever truly secure our borders?
I don't want to grant amnesty to anyone.
And our government will not do a thing to secure the borders so long as both the Democrats (votes, union control) and Republicans (big business) WANT illegal immigration.
What I mean is this - not that the illegals themselves should stay, or that I condone what they are doing. But what I find most troubling (aside from the ugliness of referring to human beings as parasites and talking about "our" stores) is that people seem to go after the symptoms and not the causes. People really seem to think that getting rid of emergent medical care is going to stop people coming. In fact, what it will do is to increase the number of untreated carriers of disease.
What I suggest is to *enforce* vigourously the rules we now have. Put real penalties in place (especially for companies) who hire illegal immigrants. If we make it difficult for illegals to work, I believe that most of them will go home on their own. If we enforce the border, then they will not be replenished by newcomers. We do not need to round up and deport, and we do not need to resort to inhumane, cruel, and downright dangerous actions of the sort being tossed around here.
Agreed....great thoughts. Put you 'head-and-shoulders' above the 'angry mob'...and for that, you get a 'rep'...
And our government will not do a thing to secure the borders so long as both the Democrats (votes, union control) and Republicans (big business) WANT illegal immigration.
Now, we are getting closer to the real issue. Zero attention from Washinton. The Republicans like the cheap labor and the Democrats are looking for votes. Notice how little is needed to register to vote. It begins with being a citizen, but then expands to "utility bills, driver's licenses, et cetera. During our last local election, I asked the Town Clerk why he did not check the data given to register. He said, "It's not my job." What will it take for Washinton to understand we don't hate the people who came here illegally, but we do hate the conditions that now prevail due to an uncountable population needing services. The fact we cannot communicate or get the right information from the undocumented illegals?
When I served in government, whenever we talked about wage increases or cost of living increases, we would hire a professional to count the productive vs. the unproductive. The productive being the workers with countable income and paying taxes versus those who were exempt in some way, elderly, minors, disabled, statutorily exempt et al. When you can't count whom it is you serve, you can't plan responsibly. When you break the chain of command and accountability to laws, equally, you cannot lead. That is the problem. Washington doesn't care. They are too busy fighting for a presidency that will give them more power and both sides have ignored the illegal issue.
And lastly, Baron, when I was in "government" working with a family of green card holders. I asked one of their healthy male members, who spoke decent English, to become a full citizen so he could claim the others. His answer? "Oh no, if I become a citizen and war breaks out in this country, I would have to defend this country!" Well, you can imagine what I said to him along with the fact that my four brothers saw action in three Wars for this country.
That is where they scare me. Twenty million illegals may become our Trojan Horse. Have you given that thought Baron?
Last edited by Friendly blogger; 06-20-2008 at 06:53 AM..
Thanks Nicolem for your direct comments. I know I must seem tough to Baron, but believe the hallmark of my career was that I cared about the little guy. One fact that might have explained my aggressiveness regarding illegal aliens is that three years ago , it began to surface ever so slightly in our community. And we, like some in this thread, said, the same things...they are human beings....they just want a better life....oh poor things they can't speak English, let's help and you know what happened? In short order, we were invaded by over three thousand of them because we became known as being "disposed towards them." We could not use our practice playing fields, they invited their counterparts from all over the state to come and play in that "nice town." They voided and defacated in plain sight. Fathers of cheerleaders were ready to pounce. We had to implement a licensure law to regulate use of the fields. The local human service agency (well known) bin has been discontinued, as the illegals could be seen raiding the bins, placing their children inside the bin to throw items out. What they did not want, they discarded on the ground, all over the lot. Finally, the Agencytold them to stop stealing from the bins, to register for help like others, to no avail, so the bins were taken away. I saw this myself this is not gossip. I personally stopped and asked them to be considerate of others, they just laughed and said, "we poor, no english." Our para medic service was discontinued as it was abused by the "no pays" who then received a travel voucher home. The illegals brought their relatives stateside for surgery and health care in "that nice hospital." My husband and I have been "doctoring" and are balanced billed over our generous health insurance payments. "Why should any insured American have to pay more than the Insurance Co approves while illegals next to you say, "me free, no insurance, discrimination?" Baron, this is where we are not equal. I tried ignoring the additional billing and the bills were sent to a collection agencyl. Today, I will use some of my pension income to pay the @#$$%^&* bill!!! Illegals enrolled their kids and those of their relatives in our schools, asked for free meals, interpreters, counseling and whenever they were asked any questions, the response was "no english, no insurance, discrimination." Suddenly, there were over seventeen store front churches on our Main St. and side streets, with some of them being nothing more than a house with a church sign on the front lawn. The owner said, he preached at his dining room table. He had a brand new boat and ski mobile in his back yard. Our chief assesor fought that one all the way to the appelate court and won. Our town officials have enforced health code laws to avoid the overcrowding that led to over one hundred cases of tb.
We had three fatal accidents due mostly to not being able to read signs and several near accidents..when they drove up one way streets and simply said, "no english." It was as I said, the uncountable population was unaccountable to our local laws. School costs rose 17 per cent. It is a question of survival. We are not a super large town or city, just a middle income town of 27,000 people struggling with this failing economy and loss of jobs, mostly to underpaid, under the table, roofers, landscapers and construction workers. The impact has been tough. Most of all, the United States has been most generous regarding legal immigration and looking askance at illegal immigration is an insult to those millions in the pipeline doing it the way Americans do.....legally. Baron, none of these are "stories....anecdotes.....vitriol.....it is known as uncontrolled growth and uncontrollable costs and services and taxes. It is unconscionable to ask struggling Americans to pay for the untold numbers of poor from other countries, especially, countries that do not support America in her need.
Last edited by Friendly blogger; 06-20-2008 at 09:31 AM..
Thanks Nicolem for your direct comments. I know I must seem tough to Baron, but believe the hallmark of my career was that I cared about the little guy. One fact that have explained my aggressiveness regarding illegal aliens is that three years, it began to surface ever so slightly in our community. And we, like some in this thread, said, the same things...they are human beings....they just want a better life....oh poor things they can't speak English, let's help and you know what happened? In short order, we were invaded by over three thousand of them because we became known as being "disposed towards them." We could not use our playing fields, they invited their counterparts from all over the state to come and play in that "nice town." They brought their relatives for surgery and health care in "that nice hospital." They enrolled their kids and those of their relatives in our schools, asked for free meals, interpreters, counseling and whenever they were asked any questions, the response was "no english, no insurance, discrimination." Suddenly, there were over seventeen store front churches on our Main St. and side streets, with some of them being nothing more than a house with a church sign on the front lawn. He said, he preached at his dining room table. He had a brand new boat and ski mobile in his back yard. Our chief assesor fought that one all the way to the appelate court and won.
We had three fatal accidents due mostly to not being able to read signs and several near accidents..when they drove up one way streets and simply said, "no english." Most of all, the United States has been most generous regarding legal immigration and looking askance at illegal immigration is an insult to those millions in the pipeline doing it the way Americans do.....legally.
I don't think you are too tough at all. I have seen my hometown of NJ become a magnet for illegals and much of NJ overrun by illegals. Parks I used to run in as a young teen by myself now my dad wll not go in as the day laborers go there, deficate and urinate, intimidate. There have been rapes and muggings. Even cemetaries are not safe as the illegals open up camps in them in NJ and around the country. Hospitals closed, schools overrun, crime. I now live in NH and have started to see the beginnings of what I saw in NJ back in the 90's-the start of it and it makes me angry and sick.
Now, we are getting closer to the real issue. Zero attention from Washinton. The Republicans like the cheap labor and the Democrats are looking for votes. Notice how little is needed to register to vote. It begins with being a citizen, but then expands to "utility bills, driver's licenses, et cetera. During our last local election, I asked the Town Clerk why he did not check the data given to register. He said, "It's not my job." What will it take for Washinton to understand we don't hate the people who came here illegally, but we do hate the conditions that now prevail due to an uncountable population needing services. The fact we cannot communicate or get the right information from the undocumented illegals?
When I served in government, whenever we talked about wage increases or cost of living increases, we would hire a professional to count the productive vs. the unproductive. The productive being the workers with countable income and paying taxes versus those who were exempt in some way, elderly, minors, disabled, statutorily exempt et al. When you can't count whom it is you serve, you can't plan responsibly. When you break the chain of command and accountability to laws, equally, you cannot lead. That is the problem. Washington doesn't care. They are too busy fighting for a presidency that will give them more power and both sides have ignored the illegal issue.
And lastly, Baron, when I was in "government" working with a family of green card holders. I asked one of their healthy male members, who spoke decent English, to become a full citizen so he could claim the others. His answer? "Oh no, if I become a citizen and war breaks out in this country, I would have to defend this country!" Well, you can imagine what I said to him along with the fact that my four brothers saw action in three Wars for this country.
That is where they scare me. Twenty million illegals may become our Trojan Horse. Have you given that thought Baron?
Now, we are getting closer to the real issue. Zero attention from Washinton. The Republicans like the cheap labor and the Democrats are looking for votes. Notice how little is needed to register to vote. It begins with being a citizen, but then expands to "utility bills, driver's licenses, et cetera. During our last local election, I asked the Town Clerk why he did not check the data given to register. He said, "It's not my job." What will it take for Washinton to understand we don't hate the people who came here illegally, but we do hate the conditions that now prevail due to an uncountable population needing services. The fact we cannot communicate or get the right information from the undocumented illegals?
When I served in government, whenever we talked about wage increases or cost of living increases, we would hire a professional to count the productive vs. the unproductive. The productive being the workers with countable income and paying taxes versus those who were exempt in some way, elderly, minors, disabled, statutorily exempt et al. When you can't count whom it is you serve, you can't plan responsibly. When you break the chain of command and accountability to laws, equally, you cannot lead. That is the problem. Washington doesn't care. They are too busy fighting for a presidency that will give them more power and both sides have ignored the illegal issue.
And lastly, Baron, when I was in "government" working with a family of green card holders. I asked one of their healthy male members, who spoke decent English, to become a full citizen so he could claim the others. His answer? "Oh no, if I become a citizen and war breaks out in this country, I would have to defend this country!" Well, you can imagine what I said to him along with the fact that my four brothers saw action in three Wars for this country.
That is where they scare me. Twenty million illegals may become our Trojan Horse. Have you given that thought Baron?
The real issue was never in doubt, Friendly. I have little doubt that the presence of illegal aliens in such enormous numbers is having an enormous and negative effect on our enviornment, our schools, our hospitals, and on finanices for those in the bottom half of the income distribution. The benefits (and they are real) are going pretty much to those in the top half - cheap workers in their plants, cheap domestics to clean their homes, with the costs and impact bourne elsewhere.
My issue with you was *never* that illegal immigration is not a problem; it is that what we used to call "one guy stories" when I was younger (i.e., "I knew this one guy who...) often masquerade as real arguments. It is trivial to shoot them down in various ways, and in so doing, it undermines the discussion.
For example, the canard about an immigrant not wanting to be a citizen because, ostensibly, he would have to go to war you offer. First, to counter the one guy you mention, it is *easy* to google up and name several immigrants (some illegal even) who have been killed in Iraq. In fact, in the last military draft, simply being a permanent resident (i.e., green card holder) made you eligible.
The bottom line: illegal immigration is bad because it has negative impacts on our schools, hospitals, and infrastructure, undermines the wage structure and disproportionately impacts those most vulnerable.
My issue with you was *never* that illegal immigration is not a problem; it is that what we used to call "one guy stories" when I was younger (i.e., "I knew this one guy who...) often masquerade as real arguments. It is trivial to shoot them down in various ways, and in so doing, it undermines the discussion.
.
Congratulations..you're the FIRST person I've heard in many years to mention this.
I spent 10 years in the Post Office back in the 70's. A huge number of us were either military retirees, or recent "Vietnam vets"....and just about every other story was a "war story"...and almost ALL of them began with "We had a guy"....(who did this, or that...or who was SO WEIRD that he.....or similar).
THese, we called "We Had A Guy" stories....and it sounds a lot like what you're talking about...
As a matter of fact, now that you mention it, we had this ONE guy, over in Subic Bay, who......awww, forget it. You wouldn't believe what he did anyway....
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