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Old 12-25-2018, 06:39 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,394,448 times
Reputation: 14266

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Seriously, the wall is going to cost a ****-ton and it's not gonna be that effective. There are already plenty of walls and monitoring throughout the border area and people still get through. And you can't make it triple barbed wire with land mines and machine gun towers - which would be effective, by the way, as was shown by the Soviet Union back in the day.

Instead, you should all be focusing on employment verification. If you don't want the Central Americans to come, then deny them employment. Make employment verification serious business and enforce that. Why are you not up in arms about the fact that e-verify is not mandatory nationwide? There are some bills for it now in the works.

The dirty secret is that while Trump supporter types talk tough about the border, many don't talk very tough about illegals working in certain jobs. Same farmer who votes for Trump is happy to hire illegals, because he knows they're extra cheap and can be squeezed like lemons - and who are they going to complain to? And same consumer who votes for Trump is happy to buy cheap produce at the supermarket. Make e-verify mandatory everywhere (and beef up enforcement & penalties), force the farmers to hire Americans at boosted wages, and we all get ready to pay more for groceries. Ditto in other industries. Easy. Would cost serious cash, but it would be more effective.

But no...we have to look the other way on that and fixate on this wall thing...

 
Old 12-25-2018, 06:45 PM
 
4,019 posts, read 3,931,048 times
Reputation: 2938
Trump doesn't want that.

Because he wouldn't be able hire cheap undocumented immigrants to work in his hotels and casinos then stiff them.
 
Old 12-25-2018, 06:47 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,394,448 times
Reputation: 14266
Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
Trump doesn't want that.

Because he wouldn't be able hire cheap undocumented immigrants to work in his hotels and casinos then stiff them.
He certainly is a hypocrite about it. But there are now some things in the works on it within Trump admin. I guess it's just not as marketable as a rallying cry for the base as a wall.
 
Old 12-25-2018, 06:49 PM
Status: "Ephesians 6:12" (set 19 days ago)
 
45,010 posts, read 26,159,906 times
Reputation: 24753
End govt education and welfare for all non taxpayers and stay out of the employment agreements of others.
 
Old 12-25-2018, 06:50 PM
 
4,019 posts, read 3,931,048 times
Reputation: 2938
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
He certainly is a hypocrite about it. But there are now some things in the works on it within Trump admin. I guess it's just not as marketable as a rallying cry for the base as a wall.
Trump knows the wall would not work. If it did he would never build it.

But it does serve as a great propaganda tool to rally his clueless base.
 
Old 12-25-2018, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,743,124 times
Reputation: 5277
If anybody was serious about stopping illegal immigration, they'd prosecute employers who hire them.

But we all know that'll never happen on any large scale.
 
Old 12-25-2018, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Japan
15,292 posts, read 7,705,805 times
Reputation: 10006
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Instead, you should all be focusing on employment verification. If you don't want the Central Americans to come, then deny them employment. Make employment verification serious business and enforce that.
Yeah, right. As if CNN would not be all over that calling it racist, inhumane, fascist, etc...
 
Old 12-25-2018, 07:01 PM
 
9,897 posts, read 3,398,621 times
Reputation: 7737
This has been discussed for years, and goes nowhere. Republicans like the cheap labor; Democrats like the votes (and cheap labor).
 
Old 12-25-2018, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,858 posts, read 17,231,843 times
Reputation: 14459
Your choices...

The Blue Plan: Hold a gun to the heads of others, relieve them of their wallets, then use the ill-gotten booty to fund an involuntary 3rd party who will force two consenting parties into doing something they don't want to do (e-verify).

The Red Plan: Hold a gun to the heads of others, relieve them of their wallets, then use the ill-gotten booty to fund an involuntary 3rd party who will put up a structure on non-privatized land to stop the natural right known as freedom of movement.

The Yellow Plan: Don't commit armed robbery. If two parties want to exercise their freedom of association and you object then the only thing you can do is use social pressure/other non-violent means to dissuade said parties from pursing the relationship. Secondly, don't impede freedom of movement by putting up structures on non-privatized land. If you would like to stop someone from encroaching on a specific area of land you must acquire that land by homesteading it or via consensual agreement with the preexisting owner.

I choose the Yellow Plan.
 
Old 12-25-2018, 07:07 PM
 
62,439 posts, read 28,688,891 times
Reputation: 18373
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Seriously, the wall is going to cost a ****-ton and it's not gonna be that effective. There are already plenty of walls and monitoring throughout the border area and people still get through. And you can't make it triple barbed wire with land mines and machine gun towers - which would be effective, by the way, as was shown by the Soviet Union back in the day.

Instead, you should all be focusing on employment verification. If you don't want the Central Americans to come, then deny them employment. Make employment verification serious business and enforce that. Why are you not up in arms about the fact that e-verify is not mandatory nationwide? There are some bills for it now in the works.

The dirty secret is that while Trump supporter types talk tough about the border, many don't talk very tough about illegals working in certain jobs. Same farmer who votes for Trump is happy to hire illegals, because he knows they're extra cheap and can be squeezed like lemons - and who are they going to complain to? And same consumer who votes for Trump is happy to buy cheap produce at the supermarket. Make e-verify mandatory everywhere (and beef up enforcement & penalties), force the farmers to hire Americans at boosted wages, and we all get ready to pay more for groceries. Ditto in other industries. Easy. Would cost serious cash, but it would be more effective.

But no...we have to look the other way on that and fixate on this wall thing...

Geez, another one I have to school??? The walls that are being breached are the flimsy fences that congress had built under the Secure Fence Act back in 2006. They initially agreed to build a double barrier along 700 miles of the most porous areas of the border but only 30 miles of that was actually built under Obama. Where those good walls were built I have already posted numerous links proving how well they work. Did you miss them?


Not all illegals are here to work. Certainly criminals, terrorists and the drug cartels aren't looking for work. E-verify will only remove the incentive for those coming here for economic opportunity but without denying their kids our birthright citizenship also they'd still come for all the benefits of that. I want e-verify mandated nation wide and so do most conservatives. It was the Republicans who presented a bill for it but it was voted down by the Democrats. Did you miss that link to? Trump has e-verify in his 2019 budget. Let's see how that goes down with the Democrats this time around.


You are speaking of a minority of conservatives that don't want illegal immigration to end to gain profit from them and there are just as many Democrat businessmen that hire them as well and don't want the flow of cheap labor to stop. We'd also need to figure out a way to stop them from paying their illegal workers cash.


Stop speaking for most "regular" conservatives. They want illegal immigration stopped and our border secured and they don't hire them for profit. As for cheap goods that's a joke. Those who hire them don't pass any savings unto the consumer what they do pass on to the taxpayer are their social costs to the tune of over $100 billion a year. Those so-called cheap goods aren't so cheap after all, are they?


Most illegals are not working on farms either. Only 2-4% are while the rest have taken jobs that once paid a fair wage to Americans. Also, there are unlimited visas for legal, foreign farm workers so who needs illegals to pick crops?

The wall should be a part of the solution that doesn't mean that e-verify shouldn't be mandated also We need a total package to deter illegal immigration not a piece meal one. A good physical barrier assists the Border Patrol to do their job more effectively and better to deter as many illegals at the border as we can than to allow them to get in here where they are much harder to weed out and more expensive to do so.
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