U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-21-2019, 06:56 AM
 
34,909 posts, read 15,730,713 times
Reputation: 9330

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490 View Post
Your talking about the House bill which was voted down had 25 billion for wall which we don't need.

E-Verify has been around since 1996 mandating E-Verify has never been a stand alone bill lobbyist such as the US chamber of commerce have worked hard to keep E-Verify from ever becoming mandatory. Large business's who pay lobbyist like the chamber of commerce want to keep it the way it is, so they can continue to use illegal labor.

Quick check on US chamber of commerce website search "U.S. Chamber Lawsuit Challenges Massive Extension of E-Verify Program to Federal Contractors" https://www.uschamber.com/press-rele...al-contractors

This is just one example of their work fighting E-verify

Some good information about E-verify how Arizona made it mandatory saw a 33% drop in illegal labor
https://www.dailyherald.com/business...al-immigration
Actually, the bill on e-verify that I'm talking about was awhile back and before Trump was president. The GOP presented it and the Democrats voted it down. I'll try to find the link again as I lost it when my old computer crashed. Yes we do need $25 billion to complete the entire 1,000 miles of wall on the most porous areas of our border.

I don't doubt that the Chamber of Commerce is fighting implementation of e-verify also. I agree that it would go a long ways in reducing jobs for illegal aliens which is one of the magnets that bring them here. We'd have to figure out a way to stop them from being paid cash to work also. We need a total package to deter and control illegal immigration but that has to include good physical barriers on our border where they are feasible also.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-22-2019, 01:15 AM
 
3,118 posts, read 2,128,304 times
Reputation: 3429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Actually, the bill on e-verify that I'm talking about was awhile back and before Trump was president. The GOP presented it and the Democrats voted it down. I'll try to find the link again as I lost it when my old computer crashed. Yes we do need $25 billion to complete the entire 1,000 miles of wall on the most porous areas of our border.

I don't doubt that the Chamber of Commerce is fighting implementation of e-verify also. I agree that it would go a long ways in reducing jobs for illegal aliens which is one of the magnets that bring them here. We'd have to figure out a way to stop them from being paid cash to work also. We need a total package to deter and control illegal immigration but that has to include good physical barriers on our border where they are feasible also.

Cash payment isn't actually that common from business's because the IRS requires business to report on any payment over $600 the EIN the business entity or SSN of the person the contracted work from. If they hire someone they will need to use E-Verify. I used to run small business not worth the risk of losing everything over paying someone cash when it's more then $600. The problem comes up with illegal's running a cash business such as landscapers. That can be easily fixed simply give a deduction for using legal workers another words if you want to take advantage deducting a tax write off need the EIN, or SSN of the person you contracted with. The loss in tax revenue will offset the cost of Anchor baby welfare. We can agree to disagree on the wall as far as GOP and Obama I never saw a stand alone E-Verify bill. I'm not blaming the GOP for it lot of DEM's also been working hard for lobbyist to stop any immigration reform.

This is why they fight so hard to keep E-verify being mandatory if they ever employ that large business can't get away with hiring and subcontractors who use illegal labor from being contracted. The way to tie it all in is the also connect the EIN of the business to E-verify of their employees. If a sub contractor who is using illegal labor he wont' have anyone show up in E-verify as being an employee, but they were paid $100k and reported to the IRS. That doesn't add up a computer could flag that because he has to report is cost of labor if he only E-verified his secretary and wife running the office yet took in 100k deducted 60k in labor cost he is committing tax fraud.


This is why they fight so hard to keep it the way it is old I-9 form.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2019, 06:28 AM
 
34,909 posts, read 15,730,713 times
Reputation: 9330
Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490 View Post
Cash payment isn't actually that common from business's because the IRS requires business to report on any payment over $600 the EIN the business entity or SSN of the person the contracted work from. If they hire someone they will need to use E-Verify. I used to run small business not worth the risk of losing everything over paying someone cash when it's more then $600. The problem comes up with illegal's running a cash business such as landscapers. That can be easily fixed simply give a deduction for using legal workers another words if you want to take advantage deducting a tax write off need the EIN, or SSN of the person you contracted with. The loss in tax revenue will offset the cost of Anchor baby welfare. We can agree to disagree on the wall as far as GOP and Obama I never saw a stand alone E-Verify bill. I'm not blaming the GOP for it lot of DEM's also been working hard for lobbyist to stop any immigration reform.

This is why they fight so hard to keep E-verify being mandatory if they ever employ that large business can't get away with hiring and subcontractors who use illegal labor from being contracted. The way to tie it all in is the also connect the EIN of the business to E-verify of their employees. If a sub contractor who is using illegal labor he wont' have anyone show up in E-verify as being an employee, but they were paid $100k and reported to the IRS. That doesn't add up a computer could flag that because he has to report is cost of labor if he only E-verified his secretary and wife running the office yet took in 100k deducted 60k in labor cost he is committing tax fraud.


This is why they fight so hard to keep it the way it is old I-9 form.
I think we agree for the most part but I still don't understand how anyone can claim that good physical barriers aren't a deterrant to illegal entry especially when there is so much proof out there that they are. There are walls, etc. around out homes and businesses if they aren't a deterrant then why do we have them? Of course they aren't 100% effective but they are effective enough to warrant having them. Better to deter illegal aliens at our border than to allow them to get in here where they are much harder to weed out and more expensive to do so. Not all illegals are coming here to work either but I do agree with you on mandating e-verify nationwide as it would remove the job magnet for the most part. Denying their U.S. born kids our birthright citizenship so they can't obtain benefits through them should be coupled with e-verify.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2019, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Metropolis
1,205 posts, read 3,316,829 times
Reputation: 687
I’m sorry. Democrats don’t want it for obvious reasons. Republicans don’t want because they are the so called “party of business”. People who work in any industry that profits from population growth won’t want it. The narrative has been written that says that anything good for business is good for America. Restaurant owners, landscape companies and cleaning companies owners are a protected class, the coveted “small business owner”. They are literally untouchable in this country from doing anything wrong. Even if everify where mandatory, the workers would just go under the table. Businesses would become more liable however, and they don’t want that.

A full wall, mandatory local police immigration enforcement, tightened up refugee laws, an effective entry exit system and an end to birthright citizenship is feasible and absolute. Anything in the grey area is a waist of time.

1. 3 layer border barricade
2. All asylum seekers must wait in Mexico or be deported to wait in Mexico for their cases.
3. GPS stamp to passport that is deactivated on exit and facial recognition monitoring. Face scanner mounted on all police cars and secured government facilities to monitor for overstayers or anyone ever caught entering illegally unless they are legalized.
4. End birthright citizenship including revocation of citizenship from those not residing in country.
5. Short term work visa program for unskilled workers where pay needed to hire Americans is greater than 120% of the living wage for new hire. Unlimited amount and good for 1 year. No pathway to greencard. No family accompanied. No social security tax taken but business pays 15% tax towards SS integrity.
6. A single 3 year skilled visa program that is renewable only once (150,000 annual maximum) and business must pay worker 120% of average salary for profession with no social security taken out. Though business must pay 30% tax of employee income towards social security integrity. Immediate family may accompany after first 3 year visa renewed. If business wants to keep worker past 6 years, Green Card sponsorship available at cost of $50,000 for business.
7. L-1 visa good for only 90 days with no renewal and worker paid 150% of US salary rate for profession.

If businesses want access to the best talent out there, let them pay for it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2019, 02:41 PM
 
3,118 posts, read 2,128,304 times
Reputation: 3429
Low skilled worker visa programs don't work if you still have illegal's pouring in and willing to take jobs. Small business cry's about having to use E-verify they want to pocket the enormous profits they are making on the backs of cheap labor. I live in AZ and contractors prices haven't gone down last 10 years if anything they have sky rocketed. 5 years ago I got some concrete work done same amount of work today they want double the price. Is the contractor paying their illegal laborers double I doubt it. The contractor drives up in his $80k Ford Pickup truck he now offering financing that's how they are able to raise their prices still have same low cost illegal labor. Government can crack down today even in AZ where state passed laws to force E-verify the penalty is nothing in fact I don't think anyone has ever had their business license taken away for breaking E-verify law. This is how Sheriff Arpaio got into trouble he was busting business for assisting their illegal labor using phony identity. Wasn't until he started doing that all of a sudden he was slapped with lawsuits by the ALCU. He was trying to do something about illegal labor went up against the business community they got their friends to do something about it was all politics.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2019, 07:36 AM
 
65,439 posts, read 29,507,183 times
Reputation: 8401
Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490 View Post
Low skilled worker visa programs don't work if you still have illegal's pouring in and willing to take jobs. Small business cry's about having to use E-verify they want to pocket the enormous profits they are making on the backs of cheap labor. I live in AZ and contractors prices haven't gone down last 10 years if anything they have sky rocketed. 5 years ago I got some concrete work done same amount of work today they want double the price. Is the contractor paying their illegal laborers double I doubt it. The contractor drives up in his $80k Ford Pickup truck he now offering financing that's how they are able to raise their prices still have same low cost illegal labor. Government can crack down today even in AZ where state passed laws to force E-verify the penalty is nothing in fact I don't think anyone has ever had their business license taken away for breaking E-verify law. This is how Sheriff Arpaio got into trouble he was busting business for assisting their illegal labor using phony identity. Wasn't until he started doing that all of a sudden he was slapped with lawsuits by the ALCU. He was trying to do something about illegal labor went up against the business community they got their friends to do something about it was all politics.
Regarding the bold, I've already explained the reason why... E-verify, by it's own admission, only identifies 46% of illegal aliens who've been vetted via e-verify as unauthorized to work in the US. When the majority of illegal aliens pass e-verify vetting (due to the use of stolen/forged ID, SS, etc. documents), how can businesses be prosecuted for that? They rely on a Fed Gov service, but it fails more times than it succeeds.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2019, 08:09 AM
 
34,909 posts, read 15,730,713 times
Reputation: 9330
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Regarding the bold, I've already explained the reason why... E-verify, by it's own admission, only identifies 46% of illegal aliens who've been vetted via e-verify as unauthorized to work in the US. When the majority of illegal aliens pass e-verify vetting (due to the use of stolen/forged ID, SS, etc. documents), how can businesses be prosecuted for that? They rely on a Fed Gov service, but it fails more times than it succeeds.
That's precisely why we need good barriers on our border to deter them from getting into our country in the first place where they will be able to pass e-verify with stolen documents or work for cash.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2019, 08:34 AM
 
9,053 posts, read 4,276,751 times
Reputation: 11579
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Regarding the bold, I've already explained the reason why... E-verify, by it's own admission, only identifies 46% of illegal aliens who've been vetted via e-verify as unauthorized to work in the US. When the majority of illegal aliens pass e-verify vetting (due to the use of stolen/forged ID, SS, etc. documents), how can businesses be prosecuted for that? They rely on a Fed Gov service, but it fails more times than it succeeds.

What are the driving reasons behind the failures? Can we implement measures to drive the failure rate down significantly? I wouldn't scrap a system because it isn't reliable until first making an effort to determine the causes of the unreliability and the effects of potential solutions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2019, 10:16 AM
 
75,271 posts, read 32,199,893 times
Reputation: 14908
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
What are the driving reasons behind the failures? Can we implement measures to drive the failure rate down significantly? I wouldn't scrap a system because it isn't reliable until first making an effort to determine the causes of the unreliability and the effects of potential solutions.
The reason is no desire to make it work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2019, 11:30 AM
 
65,439 posts, read 29,507,183 times
Reputation: 8401
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
What are the driving reasons behind the failures?
As the Fed Gov has identified, it's the use of stolen/forged IDs and SS numbers.

Quote:
Can we implement measures to drive the failure rate down significantly? I wouldn't scrap a system because it isn't reliable until first making an effort to determine the causes of the unreliability and the effects of potential solutions.
Make any suggestions you wish to thwart ID theft.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top