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Old 03-02-2019, 10:42 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
29,051 posts, read 52,634,936 times
Reputation: 29936

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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
The natives who are farm workers tend to be wheat, corn, soybean and other large-scale crop farmers. These aren't the same people picking apples and almonds, who do tend to be immigrants. It's a case of machine-harvesting vs hand-harvesting. The crops that can be harvested by machine (again, like wheat, corn, etc) are going to be mostly if not entirely native labor. The more labor-intensive, hand-picking types of crops are going to be mostly immigrant labor. I should note the latter has been dominated by immigrant labor for well over 100 years.
Yes, and when the OP says “only 26%” that’s over 1/4, a significant impact on the industry. Here in the apple orchards of our state the growers were paying $25/hour to attract new workers as their immigrant population aged out, but still had trouble finding enough help and left fruit on the trees.
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Old 03-02-2019, 03:17 PM
 
34,582 posts, read 15,596,764 times
Reputation: 9200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
Yes, and when the OP says “only 26%” that’s over 1/4, a significant impact on the industry. Here in the apple orchards of our state the growers were paying $25/hour to attract new workers as their immigrant population aged out, but still had trouble finding enough help and left fruit on the trees.

Why didn't these apple orchard growers use the unlimited H-2A visas?
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,954 posts, read 21,152,604 times
Reputation: 20940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
Yes, and when the OP says “only 26%” that’s over 1/4, a significant impact on the industry. Here in the apple orchards of our state the growers were paying $25/hour to attract new workers as their immigrant population aged out, but still had trouble finding enough help and left fruit on the trees.
25$ a bin, stating one could pick one bin in one hour.
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Old 03-04-2019, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Northwest Peninsula
2,891 posts, read 1,475,101 times
Reputation: 1519
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Funny, the argument over the prospect of losing cheap or free labor has essentially been the same for Democrats.

Democrats in 1865: "But who is going to pick our cotton?"

Democrats in 2019: "But who is going to pick our grapes?"

Both arguments would subject people to continued exploitation and abuse for the sake of comfort for the elite (indeed, while the argument to this end with slavery is clear, employers are also exploiting illegal immigrants today, as they know they can get away with paying them less and having terrible working conditions for them as they are less likely to complain for fear of being deported).

As was the case in 1865, Americans can and are willing to work what some would call "bad" jobs. They just have to be treated with respect and paid right. Even today, most farm workers are US citizens, and only 26% are illegal immigrants, completely destroying the narrative from the left (and establishment Republicans) that the farming economy will fail without US labor.

Quote:
According to the Pew Hispanic Center, there are approximately 8.3 million illegal workers in the United States. Only 4% of illegal workers work in agriculture (Pew Hispanic Trust, Tables 5 & 6), where most laborers are foreign-born and employers have a legal guestworker program (the H-2a visa) to supply all the seasonal labor they need. Nationally, 25% (of 1.4 million) crop laborers are U.S. citizens; 21% are legal immigrant workers (including H-2a workers); and 53% are illegal workers (National Agricultural Workers Survey). In the midwest, 48% are citizens, 23% are legal permanent residents, and 29% are illegal workers.

https://www.numbersusa.org/pages/jobs-americans-wont-do


Note 25% of Latinos working in agriculture but most have a green card.
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Old 03-05-2019, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Metropolis
1,195 posts, read 3,308,074 times
Reputation: 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
Yes, and when the OP says “only 26%” that’s over 1/4, a significant impact on the industry. Here in the apple orchards of our state the growers were paying $25/hour to attract new workers as their immigrant population aged out, but still had trouble finding enough help and left fruit on the trees.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...=.154ebb6f6734


More like 60% are illegal. Where do people get their numbers from?

WOW, look what I found.......

Mechanical Almond Harvester.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ehpuGyuwqM


Mechanical Apple Harvester.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSnYPTTEP_Q

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-farm-workers/


Mechanical Blueberry Harvester.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt73GOk4JRY


Here are some crops that are difficult to mechanize;

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt...-its-hard-work

Oh my, seems like most of those crops aren't even grown here.
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Old 03-05-2019, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Metropolis
1,195 posts, read 3,308,074 times
Reputation: 679
Looks like the construction industry excuses are running out as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKGGHdl3NyQ


Again, we're talking about employers breaking the law here.
Employers trying to rationalize their law breaking with mistruth's
is especially troubling. Not only to they have options, they have
one's that are actually cheaper than their current law breaking
practices.

When I lived in California, I was dealing with a real estate guy
in Sonoma County. His family was in the grape growing business
for generations and he straight out told me that it feels "unnatural"
to have machines harvesting crops. His family preferred to have
humans doing the work because it made the business seem "more
powerful". He went on with comments that really seemed oriented
with some sort of nostalgia of Mexican's in straw hats in the sun, singing
and picking grapes et al.

Last edited by UrbanQuest; 03-05-2019 at 02:00 PM..
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:10 AM
 
2,062 posts, read 1,646,814 times
Reputation: 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Occupations of unauthorized immigrant workers



Funny, the argument over the prospect of losing cheap or free labor has essentially been the same for Democrats.

Democrats in 1865: "But who is going to pick our cotton?"

Democrats in 2019: "But who is going to pick our grapes?"

Both arguments would subject people to continued exploitation and abuse for the sake of comfort for the elite (indeed, while the argument to this end with slavery is clear, employers are also exploiting illegal immigrants today, as they know they can get away with paying them less and having terrible working conditions for them as they are less likely to complain for fear of being deported).

As was the case in 1865, Americans can and are willing to work what some would call "bad" jobs. They just have to be treated with respect and paid right. Even today, most farm workers are US citizens, and only 26% are illegal immigrants, completely destroying the narrative from the left (and establishment Republicans) that the farming economy will fail without US labor.
This is not even an issue. High wage countries like Germany, Denmark, Holland, and Japan have vibrant agricultural sector
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Northwest Peninsula
2,891 posts, read 1,475,101 times
Reputation: 1519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuptag View Post
This is not even an issue. High wage countries like Germany, Denmark, Holland, and Japan have vibrant agricultural sector

With or without illegal aliens?
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Old 03-09-2019, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,144 posts, read 4,257,468 times
Reputation: 1311
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarsonMathers View Post
I grew up in a farming community and I know it is true that most Americans do not want to work on a farm. It is hard, dirty work with long hours. We need immigrants to work the fields for the most part, but we should not be employing illegal labor to do so. Not only does that practice undercut wages for the entire industry, but it allows large-scale employers to exploit the illegal aliens themselves.

It is nonsensical to allow the system to continue as it is. We need an orderly system of immigration whereby unskilled laborers can legally work in this country and receive the benefits they deserve for such work.
It is called circular migration, not illegal entry ... well, at least that use to be the case until the current administration with its policies (not law) enacted our militarized border. Migrant workers came to the u.s. from Mexico, work the farms, then at the end of the season would return to Mexico. Now, they can not return to Mexico ... not if they want to continue to work, because any type of migration is deemed illegal (through policy, not law) entry in the u.s. today.


Why Border Enforcement Backfired

"In this article, we explain how and why the unprecedented militarization of the Mexico-U.S. border not only failed in its attempt to reduce undocumented migration, but backfired by increasing the rate of undocumented population growth and turning what had been a circular flow of male workers going to three states into a settled population of families living in 50 states."
___________________________

People are not really caring about the consequences their actions have on a particular situation and that's okay, because I'm thinking sooner or later they will figure it out. If it is more later than sooner, that's what experience teaching is all about.

Pres Bush spoke out saying, 'spoiled Americans', imo, more right than wrong in that statement.
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Old 03-09-2019, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,144 posts, read 4,257,468 times
Reputation: 1311
Quote:
Originally Posted by rantiquity View Post
https://www.numbersusa.org/pages/jobs-americans-wont-do


Note 25% of Latinos working in agriculture but most have a green card.
Quote:
most have a green card.
and ...
ICE Arrests Green Card Applicants In Lawrence, Signaling Shift In Priorities
"What this means is that people who are eligible to obtain their green card in the United States, who are following the law, who are following the rules, who are doing what the government is instructing them to do, are going to be too terrified to show up and follow through with the process," Church said. "And now a whole new category of people is going to go back into the shadow of immigration land and be living in fear."
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