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Old 03-09-2019, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
29,691 posts, read 12,608,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
We already have unlimited visas for legal, foreign workers to do farm work.
Talk to a farmer about those 'unlimited visas' they suck.
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Old 03-09-2019, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
29,691 posts, read 12,608,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Why didn't these apple orchard growers use the unlimited H-2A visas?
Here's why: https://www.tri-cityherald.com/lates...215518595.html
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
11,212 posts, read 3,762,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Occupations of unauthorized immigrant workers



Funny, the argument over the prospect of losing cheap or free labor has essentially been the same for Democrats.

Democrats in 1865: "But who is going to pick our cotton?"

Democrats in 2019: "But who is going to pick our grapes?"

Both arguments would subject people to continued exploitation and abuse for the sake of comfort for the elite (indeed, while the argument to this end with slavery is clear, employers are also exploiting illegal immigrants today, as they know they can get away with paying them less and having terrible working conditions for them as they are less likely to complain for fear of being deported).

As was the case in 1865, Americans can and are willing to work what some would call "bad" jobs. They just have to be treated with respect and paid right. Even today, most farm workers are US citizens, and only 26% are illegal immigrants, completely destroying the narrative from the left (and establishment Republicans) that the farming economy will fail without US labor.
It's really not hard to figure out. You need your welfare check? Great - we'll help you! But in return, you will spend 15 hours a week picking crops and keeping the farms running. No work = no eat.
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Old 03-10-2019, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Northwest Peninsula
2,895 posts, read 1,477,106 times
Reputation: 1524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
and ...
ICE Arrests Green Card Applicants In Lawrence, Signaling Shift In Priorities
"What this means is that people who are eligible to obtain their green card in the United States, who are following the law, who are following the rules, who are doing what the government is instructing them to do, are going to be too terrified to show up and follow through with the process," Church said. "And now a whole new category of people is going to go back into the shadow of immigration land and be living in fear."

To get a green card one should apply in their own country before hand and then they can legally enter the country, not come illegally and then apply. If you enter the country illegally you/they aren't following our rule of law.
I could care less if an illegal alien lives in fear. If they are fearful because they broke the law and are hiding in the shadows tough luck to them. Good luck to ICE.
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Old 03-10-2019, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,149 posts, read 4,258,422 times
Reputation: 1312
Quote:
Originally Posted by rantiquity View Post
To get a green card one should apply in their own country before hand and then they can legally enter the country, not come illegally and then apply. If you enter the country illegally you/they aren't following our rule of law.
I could care less if an illegal alien lives in fear. If they are fearful because they broke the law and are hiding in the shadows tough luck to them. Good luck to ICE.
You don't get it do you. Where as actions have consequences and the cutting the nose off in order to spite the face, results in pain.

One of two things is going to happen. Either lazy Americans who believe it is beneath them to work farms are going to get off their lazy rears and go to work, or ... Americans will go hungry. I'm thinking the later will happen first. What do you think?

So far the gov is propping the farms up. Sooner of later gov will run out of funds to do that. Then what?

Following the rule of law matters not to anyone without the empathy to see just what is going on. By the nature of a person being born in another country and crossing onto the u.s. makes them illegal, whether it is true of not under the law, does not matter today.

As this trend continues as well as the trend in low birth rates continues, 25 years from now, the u.s. is going to be in a world of hurt. I'm just sad that by the time the piper comes to collect, I'll be either too old, or dead ... to appreciate the irony of it all.


Good luck to you if your still around when the dust settles.
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Old 03-10-2019, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Metropolis
1,195 posts, read 3,308,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
You don't get it do you. Where as actions have consequences and the cutting the nose off in order to spite the face, results in pain.

One of two things is going to happen. Either lazy Americans who believe it is beneath them to work farms are going to get off their lazy rears and go to work, or ... Americans will go hungry. I'm thinking the later will happen first. What do you think?

So far the gov is propping the farms up. Sooner of later gov will run out of funds to do that. Then what?

Following the rule of law matters not to anyone without the empathy to see just what is going on. By the nature of a person being born in another country and crossing onto the u.s. makes them illegal, whether it is true of not under the law, does not matter today.

As this trend continues as well as the trend in low birth rates continues, 25 years from now, the u.s. is going to be in a world of hurt. I'm just sad that by the time the piper comes to collect, I'll be either too old, or dead ... to appreciate the irony of it all.


Good luck to you if your still around when the dust settles.
Japanís been at a ridiculously low birth rate for sometime now, and they arenít living in a hellscape.

One question that Iíve never really seen answered is if native Japanese or Western Europeans are equally as lazy as Americans are these days? Maybe their worse.

IMO all wealthy countries have this same ďentitled populaceĒ problem. Itís natural progression, like higher education amongst the females in a country, would likely preclude a lower fertility rate. Are you ready to tell women to have more kids or they wonít qualify for social security?

The US is a wealthy, powerful country. We can get our act together, and come up with new ideas, instead of clamoring back to certain aspects in antiquity that can address modern day dilemmas. Itís not the end of the world, we just need dishes bussed and lawns mowed.
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Old 03-10-2019, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,149 posts, read 4,258,422 times
Reputation: 1312
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanQuest View Post
Japan’s been at a ridiculously low birth rate for sometime now, and they aren’t living in a hellscape.

One question that I’ve never really seen answered is if native Japanese or Western Europeans are equally as lazy as Americans are these days? Maybe their worse.

IMO all wealthy countries have this same “entitled populace” problem. It’s natural progression, like higher education amongst the females in a country, would likely preclude a lower fertility rate. Are you ready to tell women to have more kids or they won’t qualify for social security?

The US is a wealthy, powerful country. We can get our act together, and come up with new ideas, instead of clamoring back to certain aspects in antiquity that can address modern day dilemmas. It’s not the end of the world, we just need dishes bussed and lawns mowed.
We don't need dishes bused or lawns mowed. However, we do need to eat.

I'm thinking the 'entitled populace' believes they are going to put the poor man and/or the poor man's kids to work. The poor man aged out of the workforce and the poor man didn't have the kids to replace him. So there's that.

At the present, (unless stats have changed the last I looked) the u.s. population is enough to sustain for a time ... immigrant population being the ones to help with that. However ... no immigration, no children at replacement levels equals a future that is not sustainable. (bottom line)

People do not seem to have the ability to see where the decisions they make effect the future. (I'll forgo the inhumanity of it all for now) All they see is, this is what we want to have happen today. Who cares where that leads tomorrow, today is all that matters. And that's fine in the interim, but for a country if it plans to be around for the next 25 - 100 years, (military personnel) it might be wiser to use more of a projection base to formulate its strategy for the future and not just plan for today and what people want to have happen, today.

If a person goes to the census site and looks at the population levels over the course of the last 200+ years, they will find what I found. That is, immigration counts for the greater population level than the native born population. Meaning even during the era that our great great grandparents were one of 6 - 12 kids, if it wasn't for the immigration population there would not have been enough people born here, to work. When they make the statement that, America was built on immigration, they're not lying.

Knowing this, we're not talking about just the White European population birth rates. It's almost like, move to America; become an American and stop having kids. But I digress ...

This is a global issue where as the average global birth rate is at 2 per woman, where as 2 per woman is not a rate high enough to sustain a society ... globally, people are going to have to get over themselves and learn to share. Or keep going the way we are (all countries included) and brace for impact.

China has an ancient China, Greece as well and a few others ... there isn't an ancient America, but it could happen, if we keep working on it.


Japan's Population Is In Rapid Decline


PS: There was a time when America wanted to attract the poor and down trodden. They wanted them here so they could teach them, build them up and build up America a long the way as well. Remember that as we move forward, because for sure ... we do reap that which is sewn, and if its good, good things happen, bad ... well we know how that works.

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 03-10-2019 at 11:29 PM.. Reason: ps
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Old 03-10-2019, 11:31 PM
 
16,198 posts, read 9,406,437 times
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I think the statistics and article cited in the original post are a bit misrepresented in terms of 'proving' that native American citizens are willing to do the grunt work of farming, the actual physical picking of crops. Just because a significant number of American citizens work in the farming industry as a whole, doesn't mean that a significant number of them necessarily work the fields.

And this is exactly where farmers are having a hard time finding help.

Farmers from across the country have related problems with trying to recruit American citizens to pick their crops. They've talked to people on the streets, they've even enlisted the help of state employment agencies, and there's hardly any takers.

US farmers, desperate for help, increasingly turn to Mexico

Wages rise on California farms. Americans still don’t want the job

Some people will give the reasoning that as long as you treat the employees with 'respect' and decent wages, they will work the fields. Again, not true based on what many farmers have personally experienced in their attempts to recruit American citizens to work the fields.

Besides, what exactly is a 'respectable' wage for field workers? $25 dollars an hour? Get real, at that rate might as well use machinery to gather crops (which some farmers have done). In Stockton, field workers get $19 dollars an hour and are one of the highest paid field laborers in the country. And farmers still have problems there recruiting American citizens to work the fields.

I don't get how some people think raising the minimum wage for jobs like fast food/restaurant industry is bad, yet think raising the minimum wage for picking crops to some ridiculously out of touch figure to be 'good.' Throwing around unrealistic dollar figures solves nothing in life.

Besides, I don't care how high the pay is, there's no darned way I'm going to spend 12 hours a day under the hot sun picking crops, brutal, back breaking, monotonous, soul sucking work. My body just cannot handle it.
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Old Yesterday, 05:37 AM
 
3,963 posts, read 1,136,434 times
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I agree that most Americans are not going to pick fruit and other crops, even if the pay was very good. The hard work, the long hours, the heat, etc all mean that most people are not interested in that sort of work.

That said, the Democrats should put their money where their mouths are. If they truly believe that people should not be exploited, then they should be against using illegal labor, as people who are illegal or not permitted to work legally are the easiest exploited.
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Old Yesterday, 05:52 AM
 
74,670 posts, read 31,913,363 times
Reputation: 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanQuest View Post
Japanís been at a ridiculously low birth rate for sometime now, and they arenít living in a hellscape.

One question that Iíve never really seen answered is if native Japanese or Western Europeans are equally as lazy as Americans are these days? Maybe their worse.

IMO all wealthy countries have this same ďentitled populaceĒ problem. Itís natural progression, like higher education amongst the females in a country, would likely preclude a lower fertility rate. Are you ready to tell women to have more kids or they wonít qualify for social security?

The US is a wealthy, powerful country. We can get our act together, and come up with new ideas, instead of clamoring back to certain aspects in antiquity that can address modern day dilemmas. Itís not the end of the world, we just need dishes bussed and lawns mowed.
How is it any less lazy to demand that a business cut jobs so that your returns are higher so that you do not have to work?

One wants others to work longer and harder so they do not have to work at all.
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