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Old 03-14-2019, 12:55 PM
 
12,313 posts, read 3,298,918 times
Reputation: 9874

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Labor jobs used to actually pay a wage you could raise a family on. You take any job on the planet and at some point people will cease to do it if you make the wage low enough. What we are seeing is people coming from places getting payed a few dollars a day and seeing jobs paying (to them) a lot of money.

Race has nothing to do with it.
Huh?

Most farm work and even a lot of construction work is piecework. Those who are decent at it can make double or more the min. wage at Farm work and 3 or 4X that on construction and tree pruning and other such labor.

Since the local jobs (clerk, night watchman, etc.) in KY and WV tend to pay $8-$10, why wouldn't all these people gravitate towards where the work is...to make 50% and 100% (and more) additionally?

Sorry, historically it DOES have a lot to do with race. The wealth of the South, well before our country was even founded, was based upon slaves because the Brits simply wouldn't do the work. This isn't a guess...they felt (and even wrote) that they were not "designed by God" for such hard and hot labor.

Putting it another way, I think if we took

A million 18-30 year olds from South of the Border
and
A Million 18-30 year olds from KY, WV and OH

And tested a sample to see who would work for $15 an hour for 10 hour days in 90 degree farm fields, we'd see a VAST difference in both who would do so and also in their capabilities.

Both reflect on the lack of manual work ethic in the white population. Firstly, I predict the difference in "who would do the job" (after a weeks experience of it) would be VAST>
The second part is that the white population of the USA has so long ignored their "temples" (bodies) that they could not accomplish the work at hand given their physical condition.

It's one thing to "find a couple good men" for the Marines or Seals. But taking my example above, if it was 70% for the first group and 20% for the second group (whites), how do you explain that?

I worked some of those hard jobs myself (new home construction, building demolition by hand, etc.)...most people are simply not in the physical condition to do them 5 or 6 days a week.

A couple cited examples you can find news stories on show that almost ZERO of recruited white workers were able to bear the same conditions are millions do every day....in the USA.

Honestly, when I run into hard working people like this I look at them with actual thankfulness....which, I assume is different than our other poster who says he tips his MAGA hat at them so they "know".
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
29,773 posts, read 12,647,058 times
Reputation: 21113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Trains ... they go every where. Meet the foreman at the station, they'll take you out to the farm. Live at the bunkhouse for the season at the end of the season, get back on the train and go home.
PS: my first thought was, there's a company some one could create and develop, transporting people to farms, but then one would have to have the people first, willing to actually take the job.
When has labor jobs ever paid a wage that a person can (comfortably) raise a family on?
The Economic Impacts of Immigrant Labor on U.S. Dairy Farms
(August 2015)
  • Dairy farm workers are paid an average wage of $11.54/hour, and with non-wage benefits included, an annual equivalent compensation of $34,443. Dairy farms that hire immigrant labor pay [sic] hire average wages than farms that do not hire immigrants.
Wages rise on California farms. Americans still don’t want the job
"Solorio is one of a growing number of agricultural businessmen who say they face an urgent shortage of workers. The flow of labor began drying up when President Obama tightened the border. Now President Trump is promising to deport more people, raid more companies and build a wall on the southern border."

Consumer markets rise and fall with supply and demand. Just saying ...
Your solution is for people to take a train to farms, are you serious? Here's the problem, people do not want to quit their job in order to have the honor and privilege of driving 2 hours a day to work on a farm for 8-12 weeks and then be unemployed at the end of the season.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:41 PM
 
3,096 posts, read 2,106,806 times
Reputation: 3411
I don't have a problem with legal immigration farm workers as long as laws are followed, and their kids can't become citizens by being born here.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:22 PM
 
12,355 posts, read 5,911,286 times
Reputation: 10338
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Huh?

Most farm work and even a lot of construction work is piecework. Those who are decent at it can make double or more the min. wage at Farm work and 3 or 4X that on construction and tree pruning and other such labor.

Since the local jobs (clerk, night watchman, etc.) in KY and WV tend to pay $8-$10, why wouldn't all these people gravitate towards where the work is...to make 50% and 100% (and more) additionally?

Sorry, historically it DOES have a lot to do with race. The wealth of the South, well before our country was even founded, was based upon slaves because the Brits simply wouldn't do the work. This isn't a guess...they felt (and even wrote) that they were not "designed by God" for such hard and hot labor.

Putting it another way, I think if we took

A million 18-30 year olds from South of the Border
and
A Million 18-30 year olds from KY, WV and OH

And tested a sample to see who would work for $15 an hour for 10 hour days in 90 degree farm fields, we'd see a VAST difference in both who would do so and also in their capabilities.

Both reflect on the lack of manual work ethic in the white population. Firstly, I predict the difference in "who would do the job" (after a weeks experience of it) would be VAST>
The second part is that the white population of the USA has so long ignored their "temples" (bodies) that they could not accomplish the work at hand given their physical condition.

It's one thing to "find a couple good men" for the Marines or Seals. But taking my example above, if it was 70% for the first group and 20% for the second group (whites), how do you explain that?

I worked some of those hard jobs myself (new home construction, building demolition by hand, etc.)...most people are simply not in the physical condition to do them 5 or 6 days a week.

A couple cited examples you can find news stories on show that almost ZERO of recruited white workers were able to bear the same conditions are millions do every day....in the USA.

Honestly, when I run into hard working people like this I look at them with actual thankfulness....which, I assume is different than our other poster who says he tips his MAGA hat at them so they "know".
Once again, you missed the point that these jobs are; 1) in rural areas, 2) most unemployed Americans are living in the cities and suburbs, 3) Most don't have reliable transportation, 4) If they had reliable transportation, most of their salary would be eaten up by the cost of gas and vehicle maintenance. and 5) most people want year-round work, not seasonal.

Are you willing to volunteer your time and your vehicle driving these unemployed Americans to the farms?

To illustrate an example as to what I'm talking about --- When I was in HS, my family lived in PR. During the summer, word was sent out that they were looking for people to harvest coffee beans. I would have gladly done that work but it was in the rural areas while I lived in the suburbs. My family had one car which my father needed to get to work. IOW, I had no way to get to those jobs.

You look at illegals with "thankfulness"? Wow...just...wow. None of them have any business being here, let alone working here.

If you want to be "thankful", be thankful for those who come here on an agricultural visa and work for honest farmers. Saying you are "thankful" for illegals is the same as you saying that you are "thankful" for cheap, exploitable, illegal labor.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,180 posts, read 4,263,746 times
Reputation: 1316
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Your solution is for people to take a train to farms, are you serious? Here's the problem, people do not want to quit their job in order to have the honor and privilege of driving 2 hours a day to work on a farm for 8-12 weeks and then be unemployed at the end of the season.
The question was
Quote:
Are you willing to volunteer your time and your vehicle taking unemployed Americans to the farms?
You do know how they did it during the depression era when they went looking for work? However, I guess your right, being serious does factor into it.

Unemployed do not have to quit a job ...

Honestly when I was younger I did think about milking cows (working local dairy) for work. I'm a tiny person, always have been (93 lbs soaking wet) they wouldn't hire me. I know, because I asked. Not just one either ... Today I could make $34 annual according to that report, but I'm not qualified, not that's sad.

And you're saying they wouldn't quit a job, how about taking time away for seasons and work farms for extra money?

America is the land of opportunities, funny how people tend to believe otherwise. Even if a person does not own a car, they can still go to work as there are means of transportation all around them. Just farm, ranch and agriculture, it's a lot of back breaking work and it doesn't pay as well as the oil rigs do I guess.


So yes, I stand by my solution to that problem. One would only need to find the farm that is hiring, get their details, phone them, go (yes by way of train if one doesn't have any other way) meet the foreman of said farm at the train station. The foremen would then drive the person out to the farm and settle the person in at the bunkhouse. (i needed a job and a place to stay 35 years ago, that's why i thought of it)


PS: and I like farms; i should have married a farmer ...

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 03-14-2019 at 03:02 PM.. Reason: ps
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,180 posts, read 4,263,746 times
Reputation: 1316
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
Once again, you missed the point that these jobs are; 1) in rural areas, 2) most unemployed Americans are living in the cities and suburbs, 3) Most don't have reliable transportation, 4) If they had reliable transportation, most of their salary would be eaten up by the cost of gas and vehicle maintenance. and 5) most people want year-round work, not seasonal.

Are you willing to volunteer your time and your vehicle driving these unemployed Americans to the farms?

To illustrate an example as to what I'm talking about --- When I was in HS, my family lived in PR. During the summer, word was sent out that they were looking for people to harvest coffee beans. I would have gladly done that work but it was in the rural areas while I lived in the suburbs. My family had one car which my father needed to get to work. IOW, I had no way to get to those jobs.

You look at illegals with "thankfulness"? Wow...just...wow. None of them have any business being here, let alone working here.

If you want to be "thankful", be thankful for those who come here on an agricultural visa and work for honest farmers. Saying you are "thankful" for illegals is the same as you saying that you are "thankful" for cheap, exploitable, illegal labor.
If it is that hard to get the transportation to these farms that have their now hiring signs out ... how do the immigrants do it?
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
29,773 posts, read 12,647,058 times
Reputation: 21113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
The question was
You do know how they did it during the depression era when they went looking for work? However, I guess your right, being serious does factor into it.

Unemployed do not have to quit a job ...

Honestly when I was younger I did think about milking cows (working local dairy) for work. I'm a tiny person, always have been (93 lbs soaking wet) they wouldn't hire me. I know, because I asked. Not just one either ... Today I could make $34 annual according to that report, but I'm not qualified, not that's sad.

And you're saying they wouldn't quit a job, how about taking time away for seasons and work farms for extra money?

America is the land of opportunities, funny how people tend to believe otherwise. Even if a person does not own a car, they can still go to work as there are means of transportation all around them. Just farm, ranch and agriculture, it's a lot of back breaking work and it doesn't pay as well as the oil rigs do I guess.


So yes, I stand by my solution to that problem. One would only need to find the farm that is hiring, get their details, phone them, go (yes by way of train if one doesn't have any other way) meet the foreman of said farm at the train station. The foremen would then settle the person in at the bunkhouse. (i needed a job and a place to stay 35 years ago, that's why i thought of it)
People who want to work but lack the skills to get a good paying job would prefer to work year round, whether it's in fast food or retail, there are very few people who can afford to work a few months and somehow support themselves the rest of the year. Seasonal work makes it real hard to pay rent.

During the depression there were huge numbers of unemployed people, and there was also a climate disaster that forced many people off of their farms, 2.5 million left their farms and a large number of them became migrant farmworkers. Have you even checked at how many rural train stops still exist? https://www.american-rails.com/railroad-stations.html

I'm not sure where you would get a job milking cows, I think they have cow milking machines these days. Most of the farm labor jobs that have not been automated involve the harvest of fragile crops like Avocados and Strawberries and laying and maintaining irrigation lines. Farm work is hard, most people who have never done it before are incapable of even withstanding being outside in the hot sun for 10 or 12 hours let alone doing hard dirty work the entire time.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
29,773 posts, read 12,647,058 times
Reputation: 21113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
If it is that hard to get the transportation to these farms that have their now hiring signs out ... how do the immigrants do it?
By talking to other migrant workers. They follow the crops and have been doing so from Mexico for over 100 years. They know which farmers treat you well and pay well and which don't.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,180 posts, read 4,263,746 times
Reputation: 1316
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
People who want to work but lack the skills to get a good paying job would prefer to work year round, whether it's in fast food or retail, there are very few people who can afford to work a few months and somehow support themselves the rest of the year. Seasonal work makes it real hard to pay rent.

During the depression there were huge numbers of unemployed people, and there was also a climate disaster that forced many people off of their farms, 2.5 million left their farms and a large number of them became migrant farmworkers. Have you even checked at how many rural train stops still exist? https://www.american-rails.com/railroad-stations.html

I'm not sure where you would get a job milking cows, I think they have cow milking machines these days. Most of the farm labor jobs that have not been automated involve the harvest of fragile crops like Avocados and Strawberries and laying and maintaining irrigation lines. Farm work is hard, most people who have never done it before are incapable of even withstanding being outside in the hot sun for 10 or 12 hours let alone doing hard dirty work the entire time.
They did 35 years ago too. Funny though the machines never could hook themselves up to the cows utters.

People traveled by rail during the depression did they not? They did so to go to work, because in the area they were at, work had dried up, had it not? I know farmers lost their shirts. That's why we have the farm bill. I know they burned crops and killed the cattle, so they could collect gov funding. People still traveled by way of rail to get from point a to point b if they did not have a Ford, to get them there.

Again America, land of opportunity ... unless a person doesn't want it.

Rural stops? You mean to tell me that foreman isn't going to drive to town and pick a person up at a train station? wow okay, you win.

How do immigrants do it? Honestly they may as well stay put. (and the masses go yeah, yeah)
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,180 posts, read 4,263,746 times
Reputation: 1316
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
By talking to other migrant workers. They follow the crops and have been doing so from Mexico for over 100 years. They know which farmers treat you well and pay well and which don't.
They travel by car? Whose car? Their car? What if they do not have a car, do they walk?
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